Big school versus small school debate

[billcox]

Thank you for posting those population figures. That confirms my belief that enrollment numbers can be VERY misleading. Population near a school is a much better indicator of how many kids/students a school has access to.

[93Bulldog]

Oh, so now population matters on who should win on a football field?

Classic.

[Daniel Larusso]

Oh, so now population matters on who should win on a football field?

Classic.

Who said anything about football? This topic boils down to Athens being a member of the TVC. If you can not see the obvious socio-economic and demographic advantages that Athens has over the other TVC schools in every sport, then you sir are just a biased Athens cheerleader.

[Bighitsinc]

What really cracks me up is,,, the one that started this thread is now crying foul. Vinton County covers the whole county if you can't see where the travel time/distance for some of those kids has somthing to do with some of them not being able to participate then YOU need to further your edumacation.

[fighting_falcon]

TVC-OHIO

Athens - 297 boys
Vinton County - 271
Meigs - 209
Wellston - 188
Alexander - 171
Nelsonville-York - 151

SEOAL

Logan - 478
Warren - 356
Chillicothe - 339
Jackson - 295
Gallia Academy - 258
Portsmouth - 179

* The TVC-Ohio has its top 4 teams within 109 boys of each other (ATHENS, VC, MEIGS, WELLSTON)
* The SEOAL has 0. There is a difference of 122 in just 1st and 2nd.

Take Logan out and the difference is 98!! So not really that big of difference

[blubomber89]

This thread is actually funny to me, let's just call it what all these posters really want to call it. That is Athens shouldn't be in the TVC, well guess what they are and nothing you post on here is going to change that. You can't change the type of talent that they have either. The best 11 is out there on both sides of the ball and the best side won. Talent is talent and it sounds to me as if you are all upset that Athens has the best talent and is stronger. What is really the problem, cause Athens isn't playing in the SEOAL or another league that would whoop up on everyone in the TVC. They have one of the best backs in South Eastern Ohio and one of the best linbackers also. Give credit where credit is due and I wish all the seniors from all the TVC schools good luck.

[YoDuh]

It's all about population density, period.
Other variables (coaching IQ, talent cycles, etc.) are exactly that, variable.

Personally, I enjoy the late, great, Coach Ed Bolin's view on building a football program; "If there are alley's to fight in, there's hope." (paraphrased)

[93Bulldog]

Yea the population density and Daniel Laruso's observations are waaaaaaaaaaay off when it comes to Athens! I think he forgot population figures include Ohio University students.

The last 2000 census showed that between the ages of 18-24 (your typical college student) made up 66.7% of the population in Athens ... I believe in Athens the population was 21,342 in 2000 (It's now 23,832) ... But 66.7% equals out to around 14,235 ... Bottom line is: Take away Ohio University and Athens is Nelsonville Ohio, maybe a little bigger.

You see the bump in population from 2000 to 2011 because Ohio University has 17,212 students now ... 23,832 minus 17,212 = 6,620.

O.k. Sorry - Athens is closer to being a Wellston Ohio than Nelsonville.

[YoDuh]

TVC-OHIO

Athens - 297 boys
Vinton County - 271
Meigs - 209
Wellston - 188
Alexander - 171
Nelsonville-York - 151

SEOAL

Logan - 478
Warren - 356
Chillicothe - 339
Jackson - 295
Gallia Academy - 258
Portsmouth - 179

* The TVC-Ohio has its top 4 teams within 109 boys of each other (ATHENS, VC, MEIGS, WELLSTON)
* The SEOAL has 0. There is a difference of 122 in just 1st and 2nd.

Here are some more numbers from Wikipedia that you can't twist to satisfy your agenda.

TVC
Athens, OH pop. 23,832
McArthur, OH pop. 1,888
Pomeroy, OH pop. 1,966
Wellston, OH pop. 6,078
Albany, OH pop. 808
Nelsonville, OH pop. 5,230

SEOAL
Logan, OH pop. 6,704
Vincent, OH pop. unincorporated community
Chillicothe, OH pop. 22,296
Jackson, OH pop. 6,184
Gallipolis, OH pop. 3,641
Portsmouth, OH pop. 20,226

Former SEOAL Members
Marietta, OH pop. 14,085
Ironton, OH pop. 11,129

Middleport + Pomeroy = 4521

[YoDuh]

Yea the population density and Daniel Laruso's observations are waaaaaaaaaaay off when it comes to Athens! I think he forgot population figures include Ohio University students.

The last 2000 census showed that between the ages of 18-24 (your typical college student) made up 66.7% of the population in Athens ... I believe in Athens the population was 21,342 in 2000 (It's now 23,832) ... But 66.7% equals out to around 14,235 ... Bottom line is: Take away Ohio University and Athens is Nelsonville Ohio, maybe a little bigger.

You see the bump in population from 2000 to 2011 because Ohio University has 17,212 students now ... 23,832 minus 17,212 = 6,620.

O.k. Sorry - Athens is closer to being a Wellston Ohio than Nelsonville.

This extrapolation is a reach at best, nice try though.
Also, neither Wellston nor Nelsonville have ever been a D2 school in terms of enrollment.

I'll give you this, Athens does in fact have a far reach in some areas and due to this has lost kids to bordering schools to reduce travel time.

[noreply66]

TVC-OHIO

Athens - 297 boys
Vinton County - 271
Meigs - 209
Wellston - 188
Alexander - 171
Nelsonville-York - 151

SEOAL

Logan - 478
Warren - 356
Chillicothe - 339
Jackson - 295
Gallia Academy - 258
Portsmouth - 179

* The TVC-Ohio has its top 4 teams within 109 boys of each other (ATHENS, VC, MEIGS, WELLSTON)
* The SEOAL has 0. There is a difference of 122 in just 1st and 2nd.

Here are some more numbers from Wikipedia that you can't twist to satisfy your agenda.

TVC
Athens, OH pop. 23,832
McArthur, OH pop. 1,888
Pomeroy, OH pop. 1,966
Wellston, OH pop. 6,078
Albany, OH pop. 808
Nelsonville, OH pop. 5,230

SEOAL
Logan, OH pop. 6,704
Vincent, OH pop. unincorporated community
Chillicothe, OH pop. 22,296
Jackson, OH pop. 6,184
Gallipolis, OH pop. 3,641
Portsmouth, OH pop. 20,226

Former SEOAL Members
Marietta, OH pop. 14,085
Ironton, OH pop. 11,129

Middleport + Pomeroy = 4521

Is the population of Marietta counting the college too (as Athens)

[Daniel Larusso]

Yea the population density and Daniel Laruso's observations are waaaaaaaaaaay off when it comes to Athens! I think he forgot population figures include Ohio University students.

The last 2000 census showed that between the ages of 18-24 (your typical college student) made up 66.7% of the population in Athens ... I believe in Athens the population was 21,342 in 2000 (It's now 23,832) ... But 66.7% equals out to around 14,235 ... Bottom line is: Take away Ohio University and Athens is Nelsonville Ohio, maybe a little bigger.

You see the bump in population from 2000 to 2011 because Ohio University has 17,212 students now ... 23,832 minus 17,212 = 6,620.

O.k. Sorry - Athens is closer to being a Wellston Ohio than Nelsonville.

How did I know you would come back, and twist those numbers to try and make Athens look better. Are you seriously going to tell me and everyone else on this board that Athens doesn't benefit at all from Ohio University? A division 1 MAC school in the heart of poor rural southeastern Ohio. A luxury that some other communities in the area could only dream of mind you. I bet none of the Athens kids parents are employed by OU either, or that Athens has never benefited from an Athlete that is the son or daughter of an OU coach. Give me a break. You could use that population excuse with any area school that happens to have a college in it e.g. Marietta/Marietta College, Nelsonville/Hocking, Chillicothe/OU Chillicothe, Ironton/OU Ironton, Portsmouth/Shawnee. Rio Grande is part of the Gallipolis city school district. I assume that Rio hurts Gallipolis as well.

You will say and do anything to make Athens look legit. To say that Athens is like a Nelsonville or Wellston is just ridiculous. Why are you trying so hard to convince everyone that Athens is just another TVC team? Are you trying to convince us or yourself? I don't care how much of Athens population is credited to OU. Do you think those students don't stimulate the local economy? Athens has advantages over most southeast Ohio teams, not just the TVC. Embrace the path your school has chosen, and stop looking for acceptance from the rest of us. Because you probably aren't going to get it from too many outside of Athens.

[93Bulldog]

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything ... Just trying to point things out to those who live outside of Athens that don't understand ... Athens High School isn't even located in Athens, most of the folks who live in Athens (that are affiliated with OU) could care less about Athens High School and some don't even know where the darn football field is. We are considered a SMALL COMMUNITY in southeastern Ohio to outsiders in the grand scheme of things ... WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE A DIVISION III SCHOOL? I mean seriously, you have enrollments of 1,000 boys or more at D1 schools and if Athens is such a BIG TOWN AND HAS SO MANY PEOPLE, why is LOGAN, CHILLICOTHE & WARREN all bigger than Athens? The county argument doesn't hold water either, Chillicothe has like 4 or 5 schools in it - yet the Chillicothe Cavs are a D2 school.

As far as employment and Ohio University - I worked down at OU for awhile - most of the folks at the physical plant were from Nelsonville, Albany, Stewart, Glouster & Athens ... The University casts a wide net for employment - some people drive an hour or more just to come to work every day.

[Bighitsinc]

If size doesnt matter,,,,Then schedule some DI schools and we will all shut up!!!!!!!!!!!!
Till then (and that will never happen) you are just p@##@$% in the wind..........
OHSAA gets it, but you on the other hand don't.

[TRENCHFOOT]

daniel larusso, 6,704 is for the city population of logan. theres 29,380 in population as of 2010 in hocking county. logan is the only school in hocking county. the whole county is figured in going to logan.

[oneoak]

Here is a link to school district maps. School districts don't necessarily follow county lines.
http://www.puco.ohio.gov/pucogis/sd2007_pdf/SD2007.HTML

[93Bulldog]

If size doesnt matter,,,,Then schedule some DI schools and we will all shut up!!!!!!!!!!!!
Till then (and that will never happen) you are just p@##@$% in the wind..........
OHSAA gets it, but you on the other hand don't.

Your missing the point ... I'm not arguing against the states position ... You have to seperate the schools somehow and number of boys is about the only way to do it ... Obviously they are aware of 'other' factors besides boys, other wise they wouldn't have added the 'tradition' clause.

But my argument is saying here in our neck of the woods: The D2's, 3's, 4's and some 5's - there isn't much of a difference at all.

All my posts have been backed by facts - I don't see any other posts posting 'facts' backing up the claim that size really matters here in southeastern Ohio.

FACT: The smallest school in the TVC-Ohio wins the league almost every year! Not the biggest, not the school in the middle - but the SMALLEST. (Nelsonville-York)
FACT: The biggest school in the Hocking never wins the league ... I can't even remember when Federal Hocking won or shared a league title.

If size mattered that much Vinton County and Federal Hocking would have won multiple league titles and would at least be in te hunt for one every year ... But that's just not the case now is it?

[Ironman92]

This is still going on?

[93Bulldog]

lol ... Football is year around buddy ... You didn't get the memo I92?

[YoDuh]

If size doesnt matter,,,,Then schedule some DI schools and we will all shut up!!!!!!!!!!!!
Till then (and that will never happen) you are just p@##@$% in the wind..........
OHSAA gets it, but you on the other hand don't.

Your missing the point ... I'm not arguing against the states position ... You have to seperate the schools somehow and number of boys is about the only way to do it ... Obviously they are aware of 'other' factors besides boys, other wise they wouldn't have added the 'tradition' clause.

But my argument is saying here in our neck of the woods: The D2's, 3's, 4's and some 5's - there isn't much of a difference at all.

All my posts have been backed by facts - I don't see any other posts posting 'facts' backing up the claim that size really matters here in southeastern Ohio.

FACT: The smallest school in the TVC-Ohio wins the league almost every year! Not the biggest, not the school in the middle - but the SMALLEST. (Nelsonville-York)
FACT: The biggest school in the Hocking never wins the league ... I can't even remember when Federal Hocking won or shared a league title.

If size mattered that much Vinton County and Federal Hocking would have won multiple league titles and would at least be in te hunt for one every year ... But that's just not the case now is it?

FACT: Neslonville-York is the most densely populated School District you've mentioned (with alley's )
FACT: Federal Hocking is the most sparsely populated School District you've mentioned