Wheelersburg vs Bishop Hartley week #13 Region 17 Final

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xxChampionxx 5
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Re: Wheelersburg vs Bishop Hartley week #13 Region 17 Final

Post by xxChampionxx 5 »

wobycat wrote:If you have players, that haven't been there since junior high, then they count as 8 individuals. My guess there are a few on the team. They may not be accepted next year, unless they run a 4.4. Then a poor golfer gets his scholarship pulled.
Football multiplier is 2 for a public school kid who enters private system in 9th grade.

This talk about golf scholarships is absurdly ignorant of how the admissions system at Hartley works. There's no money there for that. We don't have millionaire underwriters funding sports scholarships. It takes 5 years of arm twisting and nickel rubbing to scrape together enough money for turf, non-obstructing light poles, bleachers that don't collapse when the visitors get excited, and flush toilets.

Extracurricular participation is an admission criteria but school play, bench-warming, and super stardom all count the same. I don't know what they do at better funded schools with a long history of disproportionate athletic success like Ursuline, Mooney, or SVSM. I never had a kid apply at any of those schools. I think an open, honest, and objective audit/review of admissions practices at Hartley would reveal a system that operated the same as admissions works at Portsmouth ND, Rosecrans, Fisher, and Newark Catholic. Nothing changed from when the Hawks didn't consistently compete well in football other than a new coach who earned a state title in his second year with a team full of guys with the same bunch of last names that the fans have been hearing for the last 20-30 years. There was a placement test introduced last year to spare families the $8-16K expense of figuring out that their child wasn't adequately prepared for the academic rigor of a serious college prep secondary school. There's no "dumb jock" exception to the academic standards.

Public or private, the best explanation for a change in the continued success of an athletic program is the coach, and that's what happened at Hartley.


siderman57
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Re: Wheelersburg vs Bishop Hartley week #13 Region 17 Final

Post by siderman57 »

Crab's brother wrote:
Sport Fan wrote:
Crab's brother wrote:Another quality post...You continue to prove my assumptions of you correct.


You may want to think twice before making comments on something you have no idea about .... You may want to ask questions before assuming moving foward young man... You are correct yet again on your comment (my assumptions)..
You were the one who assumed that the Burg players cared more about their teammates than the Hartley players. Not me.

You are clueless


courier
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Re: Wheelersburg vs Bishop Hartley week #13 Region 17 Final

Post by courier »

Let us never lose sight of the effort the Burg kids displayed in this game. Most in the state of Ohio didn't think they had a chance. Most felt there would be a running clock. Not only did they have a shot at winning, if not for two plays the game could have turned out totally different. That's football! It can be a game of inches. Congrats again on an outstanding effort and a very nice season. Memories such as this last a lifetime.


wobycat
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Re: Wheelersburg vs Bishop Hartley week #13 Region 17 Final

Post by wobycat »

Sapientia et Veritas wrote:
wobycat wrote:If you have players, that haven't been there since junior high, then they count as 8 individuals. My guess there are a few on the team. They may not be accepted next year, unless they run a 4.4. Then a poor golfer gets his scholarship pulled.
Football multiplier is 2 for a public school kid who enters private system in 9th grade.

This talk about golf scholarships is absurdly ignorant of how the admissions system at Hartley works. There's no money there for that. We don't have millionaire underwriters funding sports scholarships. It takes 5 years of arm twisting and nickel rubbing to scrape together enough money for turf, non-obstructing light poles, bleachers that don't collapse when the visitors get excited, and flush toilets.

Extracurricular participation is an admission criteria but school play, bench-warming, and super stardom all count the same. I don't know what they do at better funded schools with a long history of disproportionate athletic success like Ursuline, Mooney, or SVSM. I never had a kid apply at any of those schools. I think an open, honest, and objective audit/review of admissions practices at Hartley would reveal a system that operated the same as admissions works at Portsmouth ND, Rosecrans, Fisher, and Newark Catholic. Nothing changed from when the Hawks didn't consistently compete well in football other than a new coach who earned a state title in his second year with a team full of guys with the same bunch of last names that the fans have been hearing for the last 20-30 years. There was a placement test introduced last year to spare families the $8-16K expense of figuring out that their child wasn't adequately prepared for the academic rigor of a serious college prep secondary school. There's no "dumb jock" exception to the academic standards.

Public or private, the best explanation for a change in the continued success of an athletic program is the coach, and that's what happened at Hartley.
Portsmouth Norte dame used to be the bees knees, but somewhere in history the factories shut down. Portsmouth economic success declined and Norte dame now fights just to keep the doors open. Facilities are dinsoaurs. Your poor mouthing is not impressive. Every community has to raise money if they want turf unless you get lucky like Portsmouth did and a private donor comes along.

Now you are correct in the coach to some degree. A winning coach does change the landscape. Kids who live near by that want to play football in a structured environment now can call up the head coach and say I'd like to enroll. My guess is he asks two questions. One, what's your current gpa? Two, what's your forty time? I don't blame an inner city public school students to better themselves, but no one in their right mind is going to believe that the flute player is going to be chosen over a 6'3 255 tight end, that has offers by all the Mac schools.

Open enrollment has leveled some of the playing field but pride keeps kids from transferring. Why? The grass isn't greener on the other side.


siderman57
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Re: Wheelersburg vs Bishop Hartley week #13 Region 17 Final

Post by siderman57 »

FIDO (Forget It Drive On) wrote:Let us never lose sight of the effort the Burg kids displayed in this game. Most in the state of Ohio didn't think they had a chance. Most felt there would be a running clock. Not only did they have a shot at winning, if not for two plays the game could have turned out totally different. That's football! It can be a game of inches. Congrats again on an outstanding effort and a very nice season. Memories such as this last a lifetime.

Well said.... The Burg Team is one of the Best I have ever seen play...


chiefs
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Re: Wheelersburg vs Bishop Hartley week #13 Region 17 Final

Post by chiefs »

wobycat wrote:Now you are correct in the coach to some degree. A winning coach does change the landscape. Kids who live near by that want to play football in a structured environment now can call up the head coach and say I'd like to enroll. My guess is he asks two questions. One, what's your current gpa? Two, what's your forty time? I don't blame an inner city public school students to better themselves, but no one in their right mind is going to believe that the flute player is going to be chosen over a 6'3 255 tight end, that has offers by all the Mac schools.

Open enrollment has leveled some of the playing field but pride keeps kids from transferring. Why? The grass isn't greener on the other side.
I wonder if realtors ask families when they decide to move into Mercer County how big their kids will be, their expected 40 time, expected GPA and OGT-test taking potential. Hmm... :aaaaa46

As for your last post... what about schools that have benefitted athletically from move-ins, such as Bloom-Carroll? You don't think a kid from Green Township in Scioto County has ever decided to graduate as a Pirate as opposed to a Bobcat?


Westfan
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Re: Wheelersburg vs Bishop Hartley week #13 Region 17 Final

Post by Westfan »

Over the years Wheelersburg has benefited from East, Green, and especially South Webster not having football. Driving through New Boston you see at least 2 pirate player signs in addition to that. I would say if South Webster would've kept the football team they started a few years ago, it would have really hurt Minford and Wheelersburg. Those kids would be juniors and seniors now.

But you can't blame kids for going there. They have a good program in all sports. No different than a Northwest kid going to West.

But it still doesn't compare to the advantage that private schools from large cities have.


wobycat
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Re: Wheelersburg vs Bishop Hartley week #13 Region 17 Final

Post by wobycat »

The FC Fan wrote:
wobycat wrote:Now you are correct in the coach to some degree. A winning coach does change the landscape. Kids who live near by that want to play football in a structured environment now can call up the head coach and say I'd like to enroll. My guess is he asks two questions. One, what's your current gpa? Two, what's your forty time? I don't blame an inner city public school students to better themselves, but no one in their right mind is going to believe that the flute player is going to be chosen over a 6'3 255 tight end, that has offers by all the Mac schools.

Open enrollment has leveled some of the playing field but pride keeps kids from transferring. Why? The grass isn't greener on the other side.
I wonder if realtors ask families when they decide to move into Mercer County how big their kids will be, their expected 40 time, expected GPA and OGT-test taking potential. Hmm... :aaaaa46

As for your last post... what about schools that have benefitted athletically from move-ins, such as Bloom-Carroll? You don't think a kid from Green Township in Scioto County has ever decided to graduate as a Pirate as opposed to a Bobcat?
No way you can compare city schools and county schools


siderman57
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Re: Wheelersburg vs Bishop Hartley week #13 Region 17 Final

Post by siderman57 »

Westfan wrote:Over the years Wheelersburg has benefited from East, Green, and especially South Webster not having football. Driving through New Boston you see at least 2 pirate player signs in addition to that. I would say if South Webster would've kept the football team they started a few years ago, it would have really hurt Minford and Wheelersburg. Those kids would be juniors and seniors now.

But you can't blame kids for going there. They have a good program in all sports. No different than a Northwest kid going to West.

But it still doesn't compare to the advantage that private schools from large cities have.

Name one South Webster Student Athete on the Burg Team...Every Kid that is on the Burg team Freshman up were here since 5th and 6th grade... I also agree that this does not compare with Privates schools from large cities .... Bishop Hartley recruits like most private schools do.. no question about that... Also they can pick what Division they want to be in .. Depending on OSHAA rules, they can stay is Div 5 or Div 6 or whatever they want to... All they have to do is refuse or accept more boys to hit the number... It would be like if the Burg was a private school and recruited the athletes from Ironton, Valley , Portsmouth, Minford, West and etc. OSHAA needs to have private schools play private schools during tournament time... With sayng that the Burg gave this Loaded almighty Hartley team all the wanted and more..


chiefs
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Re: Wheelersburg vs Bishop Hartley week #13 Region 17 Final

Post by chiefs »

I think Burg of all schools would be willing to take on the private schools if afforded an opportunity to. Valley beat Grandview Heights, which is a public school that essentially embodies several characteristics of private schools, such as financial barriers to entry (living in an expensive school district), heavy emphasis on extracurricular participation despite being amidst a very large population center. It certainly doesn't hurt there's more people per square mile living in the district than many D6 districts across Ohio. But alas, Valley overcame that obstacle and beat them. The only difference between schools such as Grandview Heights and Hartley is one is public and taxpayer supported while the other is not. It's also worth noting that in addition to fielding a very successful football squad that made the playoffs, it's soccer team had a very successful run as well - all as a D6 school.

If you don't like the system, that's o.k. But the advantages are not intrinsic to just private schools. Any school that can operate with high barriers to entry, be it tuition or high property taxes, and be able to survive and thrive amongst a large metropolitan area is playing at an advantage.

If it were a school such as Rosecrans or Portsmouth N.D. , would we be having the same discussion talking about those schools are inherently advantageous because they can pull from booming metropolises such as Duncan Falls and Frazeysburg or New Boston and Franklin Furnace? Probably not, because operating in traditionally agrarian areas and having to pull from such sparsely populated areas is both financially disadvantageous (such as the declining enrollments) and not necessarily advantageous competitively, just look no further than their football teams.


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