3rd annual "Are Power Cleans Good for Football" Debate

FarAwayFalcon
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Re: 3rd annual "Are Power Cleans Good for Football" Debate

Post by FarAwayFalcon » Fri May 30, 2008 12:14 am

gymratt wrote:Cleans are the single mos important exercise a football player (or many explosive-type athletes) can do. No one exercise is the end all be all of strength but If I could only do one exercise that would be it. What do tackling, blocking, and running all have in common...EXPLOSION. Who cares if a player can Bench 300 Lbs. if his lower body doesn't have the explosion to put a force behind it. Cleans and PARELLEL squats are the 2 most important exercixes for football players with everything else WAY WAY behind. Also, IMO, Deadlift probably hurts more highschool athletes than any other exercise. That is one lift I would get rid of if I were a strength coach or Head coach at a High School.


I agree completely with this, as one of my coaches used to say, "Bench Press can't really be used until you're flat on your back, and then it's kinda too late".



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Re: 3rd annual "Are Power Cleans Good for Football" Debate

Post by madpolecat » Fri May 30, 2008 7:30 am

Maybe it just has to do with the way I am built (wingspan is 6-4 and I am only 6-0, kinda long-armed), but I stopped messing around with heavy benches and went over to dumbells and push-ups, and my shoulders stopped hurting.

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Re: 3rd annual "Are Power Cleans Good for Football" Debate

Post by cadmus sasquatch » Fri May 30, 2008 8:27 am

power cleans

they may have there place as another compound lift for conditioning, I do not think they are the best thing to do.

"To all strength coaches: the next time you have your athletes do Olympic squats, ask yourself why. The joint angles are not advantageous for the stretch reflex. If a lineman were to use that position on the field, he would easily be pushed backward. The Olympic lifts require flexibility. Everyone thinks the Olympic lifts are so quick. While your cleans at 60% look fast, so does box squats at 60%. The Athlete who can clean 400 uses 240 lbs (60%). The lifter who can Squat 800 uses 480(60%) Who do you really think would be faster and stronger? Compared to a Powerlifter, an Olympic lifter can't squat with the Sunday paper. A kid that can hang clean 400 would look frail to an 800 squatter, and don't forget in Olympic lifting, as the bar is raising, the lifter is lowering himself, making it appear that they are moving the bar at great speed. OLYMPIC LIFTING IS THE BIGGEST BUST IN THE THE UNITED STATES. we have not placed a single lifter on the "A" list, yet alot of strength coaches still advocate the Olympic lifts."

and for the person who said, that the Bench Press is only good if you are on your back, WOW! what a statement, I do not know about everyone else but when I played I would punch, and as a coach I teach players to punch. I think a bench Press helps in that area, close grips even better.

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Re: 3rd annual "Are Power Cleans Good for Football" Debate

Post by jiveturkey » Fri May 30, 2008 8:43 am

OK, enough of my clowning around. Here is what I think (Remember: With my opinion and a quarter you cant even make a phone call!)

1. Strength Training demands close supervision from the coach. Athletes should not be allowed to sacrifice technique for pounds.
2. Cleans, done well, are an excellent lift.
3. I prefer the incline bench over the flat bench. I think the incline more closely replicates movements made in the game and they seem to stress the shoulder capsule less.
4. Deadlifts are a waste of time in the strength room due to the potential of serious injury.
5. If you are gonna squat, be parallel! No higher, no lower! This takes work on the part of the athlete and the coach in the perfection of technique.

Just my thought, guys!

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Re: 3rd annual "Are Power Cleans Good for Football" Debate

Post by boogerred » Fri May 30, 2008 8:54 am

I doubt the 800lb squatter can reach his backside after taking a crap to wipe himself!
I would definitely say a guy with a 400 lb clean is faster and more athletic than an 800lb squatter.

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Re: 3rd annual "Are Power Cleans Good for Football" Debate

Post by cadmus sasquatch » Fri May 30, 2008 9:07 am

The best 3 U.S.A. Olympic Lifters ever, started as Powerlifters simple Fact

Paul Anderson, Mark Henry, Shane Hammon,


That says it all
Last edited by cadmus sasquatch on Fri May 30, 2008 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 3rd annual "Are Power Cleans Good for Football" Debate

Post by jiveturkey » Fri May 30, 2008 9:19 am

And how many years were those guys in the pro bowl?

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Re: 3rd annual "Are Power Cleans Good for Football" Debate

Post by MTSWNGRVSG » Fri May 30, 2008 9:28 am

Interesting, according to a majority of you a guy, Dan Riley, is an NFL Strength Coach for 27 years and does not know anything. A person does not stay at that leval that long and be ignorant of what he is talking about. How many Hall of Famers played for the Redskins while he was there? Was that not that the Era of the "Hogs"?

As Forrest Gump would say, "that is all I have to say about that!"

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Re: 3rd annual "Are Power Cleans Good for Football" Debate

Post by boogerred » Fri May 30, 2008 9:41 am

Are we talking about powerlifting vs. olympic lifting or are we talking about one lift and whether or not it is good for football players?

So, hooray for powerlifting!! I don't care; powerlift all you want, but that is not the topic of this debate.

That may be Riley's position now; what was his stance on the issue before?

I think it basically comes down to what the coaches want the kids to do. It is kind of like one coach using the spread to win versus another using the west coast offense to win.

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Re: 3rd annual "Are Power Cleans Good for Football" Debate

Post by cadmus sasquatch » Fri May 30, 2008 9:48 am

Did you read all my first post it covers cleans?

everyone was talking about cleans being the greatest thing for football, and this is why I posted.

can cleans be helpful in some ways, sure, but there is others, when people got on here calling coaches lazy for not teaching it, than yes I will post my thoughts.

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Re: 3rd annual "Are Power Cleans Good for Football" Debate

Post by boogerred » Fri May 30, 2008 10:09 am

This is off topic , but what the heck....

I think there is a major misconception that squatting equals speed.

I love squats. Squatting does help with speed, but there are numerous other factors involved. Although squatting does help with the strength required to be fast, squatting doesn't require the lifter to move his feet (except to pick up the weight and to rack it).

I was told to get better at something, you have to do it! It is not rocket science. If you want to get faster, run sprints, starts, and legouts (to work on stride) - along with weight training and plyos.

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Re: 3rd annual "Are Power Cleans Good for Football" Debate

Post by cadmus sasquatch » Fri May 30, 2008 10:11 am

I have to agree if you want to get faster Run.

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Re: 3rd annual "Are Power Cleans Good for Football" Debate

Post by cadmus sasquatch » Fri May 30, 2008 10:54 am

jiveturkey wrote:And how many years were those guys in the pro bowl?


How about the superbowl is that good enough for you?

Patriots vs Packers

the owner of westside barbell was consultant for both teams.
the article on page 1, is a product of westside barbell

People come world wide and I do mean World wide to study his methods.

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Re: 3rd annual "Are Power Cleans Good for Football" Debate

Post by madpolecat » Fri May 30, 2008 11:56 am

Let us not debate whether or not Dan RIley knows anything about training NFL players.

Note, however, that he trains only guys who are superior athletes to begin with. Is the risk worth it to train a guy who is already 1 in 10,000? prolly not.

Is it worth the effort to supervise a kid in high school so he can be a better athlete? I believe so.

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Re: 3rd annual "Are Power Cleans Good for Football" Debate

Post by cadmus sasquatch » Fri May 30, 2008 12:11 pm

I think if a kid hits the weights he is going to get some what better no matter what he is doing, if he is new to it, and he is being helped by someone that knows a little.

not taking a risk doing the power clean because they are great athletes, they have to still be squating, benching plyos or something, to maintain some of that ability

so did they power clain to get strong and fast to become great athletes, and than stop because the risk was to great. If they stopped than they would have lost some of that explosiveness that everyone talks about .

once you stop doing a movement you lose a great amount of your gains in as little as 3 wks.

Karl let me know if I misunderstood you post, I may have.

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Re: 3rd annual "Are Power Cleans Good for Football" Debate

Post by MTSWNGRVSG » Fri May 30, 2008 12:15 pm

KarlAgathon-so you are saying that I did not supervise, that is interesting!

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Re: 3rd annual "Are Power Cleans Good for Football" Debate

Post by Boonedawg » Fri May 30, 2008 5:02 pm

I don't know this Reiley dude But I trust Dr. Greg Sheppard. ;-)

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Re: 3rd annual "Are Power Cleans Good for Football" Debate

Post by cadmus sasquatch » Fri May 30, 2008 6:15 pm

Boonedawg, I am glad you trust BFS.

Have you ever looked around at other things or is this what your coach used for you, and you have stuck with it?

either way you have your opinion and I have mine.

I simply believe there are better ways to coach explosiveness.

and I trust Louie Simmons, and many other strength coaches

has Dr. Shepard(sp?)
Ever been to Russia to watch there Olympic team train?

Has people came to stay with him for months from Europe to study bfs?

has lifters left school so they could come train bfs some place else?


good luck with your lifting

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