Any teams mentioned for expanding the TVC-Ohio to 8?

BuckeyeCAV
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Any teams mentioned for expanding the TVC-Ohio to 8?

Post by BuckeyeCAV » Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:16 am

Just Curious?

Does the TVC-Ohio have any teams in mind to make the TVC-Ohio an 8 member Conference? Or are they content with 7 members for the long haul?



mister b
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Re: Any teams mentioned for expanding the TVC-Ohio to 8?

Post by mister b » Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:01 pm

I think they need to add Marietta and Warren. Then split the TVC into 3 divisions large, medium and small school.

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Re: Any teams mentioned for expanding the TVC-Ohio to 8?

Post by WHSwarrior » Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:53 pm

I don't think Marietta would leave for the TVC.
And they don't want Warren.

7 it is.

bucksfan08
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Re: Any teams mentioned for expanding the TVC-Ohio to 8?

Post by bucksfan08 » Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:23 pm

then NY would def win league every year. I would love to see them try and get in a little more talented league. It would be good for the school and good for the players to play tougher competition. But i don't know of any league that would allow NY to join.

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Re: Any teams mentioned for expanding the TVC-Ohio to 8?

Post by BuckeyeCAV » Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:43 pm

bucksfan08 wrote:then NY would def win league every year. I would love to see them try and get in a little more talented league. It would be good for the school and good for the players to play tougher competition. But i don't know of any league that would allow NY to join.



What about the MSL Cardinal Division with:

MID-STATE LEAGUE CARDINAL TEAMS

1. Sugar Grove Berne Union High School
506 N. Main Street, Sugar Grove, Ohio 43155 (Fairfield County)
(740) 746-9956
Athletic Director: Julie Bell; Head Coach: Gary Cox
Rockets -- Maroon/Gold -- Division V

2. Lancaster Fisher-Catholic High School
1803 Granville Pike, Lancaster, Ohio 43130 (Fairfield County)
(740) 654-1233
Athletic Director and Head Coach: Mike Burkhardt
Irish -- Green/White -- Division VI

3. Columbus Grandview Heights High School
1587 W. 3rd Avenue, Columbus, Ohio 43212 (Franklin County)
(614) 481-3620
Athletic Director: Kathy Kinnard; Head Coach: Jason Peters
Bobcats -- Navy/White -- Division V

4. Canal Winchester Harvest Preparatory School
4595 Gender Road, Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110 (Franklin County)
(614) 837-1990
Athletic Director: John Garrett; Head Coach: Jack Johnson
Warriors -- Maroon/Gray/White -- Division VI

5. Baltimore Liberty Union High School
500 Washington Street, Baltimore, Ohio 43105-1042 (Fairfield County)
(740) 862-4107
Athletic Director: Scott Williamson; Head Coach: Dan Johnson
Lions -- Red/Black -- Division V

6. Summit Station Licking Heights High School
6539 Summit Road, SW, Summit Station, Ohio 43073 (Licking County)
(740) 927-9046
Athletic Director: Don R. Henne; Head Coach: Darren Waters
Hornets -- Maroon/Gold -- Division V

7. Millersport High School
11850 Lancaster Street, Millersport, Ohio 43046 (Fairfield County)
(740) 467-2929
Athletic Director and Head Coach: Mike Irwin
Lakers -- Purple/Gold -- Division VI

8. West Jefferson High School
1 Roughrider Drive, West Jefferson, Ohio 43162 (Madison County)
(614) 879-7654
Athletic Director: Rich Haskins; Head Coach: Shawn Buescher
Roughriders -- Brown/Gold -- Division V

NYBuckeye96
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Re: Any teams mentioned for expanding the TVC-Ohio to 8?

Post by NYBuckeye96 » Wed Dec 03, 2008 7:34 pm

If you go by pure geography, Warren should be the 8th team. Every TVC team borders another TVC team in an almost perfect little box with the addition of Athens. The only differences are if a team is in the Ohio or Hocking. The only exception to this is that Waterford is out there by itself. However, Warren borders Federal Hocking, Belpre, and Waterford, thus closing in the last hole in the box. Again the only difference is if a team is Ohio or Hocking, but all of these schools border each other and are all in the TVC. At the same time, I doubt there will ever be enough votes in the TVC to let Warren back in, which is a shame.

Crooksville would have been an ideal alternative, but the Ceramics showed no interest in joining the TVC when invited last year. A downside is that for some schools, this would have been a long road trip, as Crooksville does not border any current TVC district.

The only other realistic alternative is River Valley. River Valley borders Southern, so geographically it does fit in the TVC box, although it would be at the extreme southern end of that box. I don't know if River Valley and the TVC will ever agree at the same time that they want each other. I think the biggest mistake River Valley made when it first became a school was snubbing the TVC for the SEOAL. The TVC offered (I believe unanimously offered) the Raiders a chance to join the league back when RV first consolidated, and the Raiders opted for the SEOAL. That was a huge mistake. Then after leaving the SEOAL, RV asked the TVC to let them in, but RV came one vote short of the required votes needed to be admitted at that time. I believe Belpre and Nelsonville-York were the two no votes and that was one too many no votes.

I just don't see any other realistic alternative other than the three schools mentioned: Warren, Crooksville, or RIver Valley. The only other option is a massive change in the TVC like the three division format mentioned above.

Under the above scenerio, you would have this:

Large School:
Marietta
Warren
Athens
Vinton County
Meigs

Medium School:
Alexander
Wellston
Belpre
Nelsonville-York
Federal Hocking

Small School:
Trimble
Miller
Southern
Eastern
Waterford

HOWEVER, I think that three division format would be a tough sell at Nelsonville-York, because NY would fall to the middle division based on school size, which wouldn't benefit the football program at all. Based on school size, the middle division would be: Alexander, Wellston, Belpre, Nelsonville-York, Federal Hocking. NY has dominated all of those schools in football with only Belpre having a somewhat competative record against NY. Alexander has never beat NY in football. Federal Hocking only has one win versus NY - in 1970. Wellston only has 9 wins vs. NY going back to consolidation. A three division format based on school size would not benefit NY football at all.

If NY was in the large school division for football, NY has winning records against all those schools too, but at least traditionally those schools have been more competative against NY. Meigs, Athens, (and even Warren) have been more competative against NY then Wellston, Alex, and FH. (NY has never played Marietta).

I would also argue that Alexander and NY would not want to end a new league rivalry with Athens they now have. The NY/Trimble rivalry lost something when it stopped counting for a league title, I don't care what anyone says. Sure its a rivalry, but its not the same as it used to be! I don't want to see NY or even Alex lose that league rivalry with Athens.


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Re: Any teams mentioned for expanding the TVC-Ohio to 8?

Post by NYBuckeye96 » Wed Dec 03, 2008 7:56 pm

bucksfan08 wrote:then NY would def win league every year. I would love to see them try and get in a little more talented league. It would be good for the school and good for the players to play tougher competition. But i don't know of any league that would allow NY to join.


I don't think NY fits into any other league as the leagues exist today. The TVC is the only fit for NY.

However, if NY left the TVC, what do you think of this scenerio that would put NY and Trimble in the Muskingum Valley League:

Big School:
Zanesville
Tri Valley
Sheridan
John Glenn
Philo
Morgan

Small School:
Maysville
New Lexington
West Muskingum
Crooksville
Nelsonville-York
Trimble

mister b
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Re: Any teams mentioned for expanding the TVC-Ohio to 8?

Post by mister b » Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:24 am

Well, the 3 division split would help the medium schools more in terms of computer points. Most of these schools could still play a couple of the larger teams every season in non-conference games. The larger teams could schedule more games against schools of their own size. This would help them out for computer points for football and for improving their other sports teams.

The real deal breaker is Vinton County and Federal Hocking who like being the biggest schools in their current divisions (Ohio and Hocking) and they don't want anyone to upset their apple cart. I know, Athens is bigger then Vinton, but Vinton misjudged how much better Athens would be once they started playing TVC instead of SEOAL teams. Both schools, Vinton and Federal, are affaird to play up on a regular basis. This is why you will never see the TVC add any schools that are preceived to be somewhat good. Thats how Athens got in, nobody thought they were any good.

To get better, that is when it is playoff time in any sport, you have to play teams that prepare you for the tourney. The best way to do this is to play a schedule of 5 or 6 conference teams and adding teams to your non-conference schedule that you can be competitive against and win. You need some quality wins in football to make the playoffs, but in every other sport, you get in regardless of your record and how well you do is usually reflective of your strength of schedule.

I would like to see the TVC grow some nads and ask Warren and Marietta to join the TVC. If they say no, then so be it. At least you made a serious attempt to improve your league.

JMHO.

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Re: Any teams mentioned for expanding the TVC-Ohio to 8?

Post by BuckeyeCAV » Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:57 am

Face it, the TVC-Ohio and Hocking Divisions are not really a powerhouse name or conference in SE-Ohio concerning football. For the most part, the Conference is made up of small town schools except Athens, and the rest of the schools are rural H.S.'s within the conference.

With the exception of N-Y and Trimble, who make the playoffs in D5 and D6 almost every year, there is not a spotlight at the present time shining on the TVC, concerning their football programs.

MisterB,

No disrespect to the Athens Bulldog Football Program, but I have to disagree. Although they may make some waves now and then in the TVC-Ohio, they will never be a football power-house in the conference concerning football, unless they drop their Soccer Program in the Fall. That I don't see happening. Do you? Athens is a college town with several parents opting to have their kids play Soccer instead of Football in the Fall. When they begin to rule the TVC-Ohio in football I will take everything back, but as for now, I don't see it happening anytime soon. In the Bulldogs first season of TVC-Ohio play, little D5 Stewart Federal Hocking from the TVC-Hocking Division defeated the Bulldogs at Athens out at the Plains in a non-league contest, or did you forget that little tid-bit? Likewise, former SEOAL teams, now fellow TVC-Ohio members Wellston, Meigs and Nelsonville-York defeated Athens to. I see Vinton County doing the same to the Bulldogs in the future as Wellston, Meigs and N-Y did this season as well as Belpre. And at times Alexander too. I doubt Warren will ever be invited back in the TVC, not for their previous snub, when they departed for the SEOAL in 1985, but for the most part, the Warriors would rule the TVC-Ohio in (all other sports), except football.

The part of not inviting River Valley due to their snub is childish. They at times may compete once in a while for football, and could win at times in basketball, and baseball too, but the Raiders would not rule the conference if they were invited as a Warren would. Warren would rule in all other sports 9 times out of 10 each and ever year. The Raiders Girls Volleyball team would give Alexander a run for their money in the conference at times too!

Thus, giving balance to the TVC-Ohio instead of disrupting it as a Warren would do.

The Raider Football field is still going to be at Chesire as it stands now from our understanding, so it's right down Rt7 south of Meigs. Their new H.S. is on Rt. 160, outside of Vinton, Ohio no further than driving to Welllston in the Conference play for Belpre or Nelsonville-York. Belpre would travel Rt. 33 to Rt 32 to Rt. 160. The same for N-Y.

I don't see Crooksville D5 from the MVL as an alternative either. They are just to far out. Although the Ceramics would win the TVC-Ohio in football and give N-Y a run for the title more often than most teams.

I personally believe the whining about the past turn-down to join in the 90's and opting to go the SEOAL route should be put aside and offer them an invite.

River Valley is a D4 school about the same size as Wellston H.S. and is the only real option the TVC-Ohio has, unless they invite Warren in. And if they do that, the other teams in the TVC-Ohio can forget about anyone else winning any sports except football.

The only other option would be to make D5 Federal Hocking move up from the Hocking to the Ohio Division as they did with Alexander in the 90's. As small as Glouster Trimble D6 is, they could compete and win the TVC-Ohio in football too. But don't see the folks in Glouster wanting to leave the Hocking Division do you?

The Big School Conference would not work either, I don't see Vinton County or Meigs wanting to play Marietta, who would win the title almost yearly and in all other sports too. Remember, although Vinton County is a D3 school, it is a very rural county H.S.

Some has even floated the idea to invite Gallipolis D4 from the SEOAL into the TVC-Ohio. They would rule the TVC-Ohio more than Warren would. And in all sports. So that would be a losing option for the conference to.

I think the conference has only two options if they actually want an 8th team to round out the TVC-Ohio. I say put aside childish grudges and invite River Valley in. Thus, getting the Raiders out of the OVC and giving the TVC-Ohio a 7 game schedule, with 3 non-conference contest. Plus giving the TVC-Ohio 14 conference games in all other sports, with 6 non-conference contest in all other sports.

The only other true option the TVC-Ohio has is make Federal Hocking move from the Hocking Division to the Ohio Division. But if Federal Hocking moved that would leave the Hocking Division with 5 teams in it. So that wouldn't be wise either.

I say River Valley is the only true option, that the TVC-Ohio has for an 8th team.

Or stay with 7 teams and be content.

There is my two cents.
Last edited by BuckeyeCAV on Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:37 am, edited 4 times in total.

buckfan84
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Re: Any teams mentioned for expanding the TVC-Ohio to 8?

Post by buckfan84 » Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:25 am

RV would never give Alex a run for their money in volleyball, though I do think they would make a good addition to the TVC.

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Re: Any teams mentioned for expanding the TVC-Ohio to 8?

Post by BuckeyeCAV » Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:30 am

buckfan84 wrote:RV would never give Alex a run for their money in volleyball, though I do think they would make a good addition to the TVC.



I think they would give Alexander some competition in Volleyball.

I also think they are the only true choice and option the TVC-Ohio has for balancing the Ohio Division out. That is, speaking of adding an 8th team for the TVC-Ohio Division.

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Re: Any teams mentioned for expanding the TVC-Ohio to 8?

Post by NYBuckeye96 » Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:10 am

Concerning the Hocking schools, Federal Hocking has always been the larger school in the division. However, Federal Hocking has been losing a lot of students in recent years. In fact, if you look at elementary school enrollment figures today, Federal Hocking is only a few years away from being a Division VI school, about the same size as the current high school enrollments of Trimble and Miller.

On the other hand Trimble is also losing students each year and I'm not sure about the other Hocking schools. So maybe Federal Hocking will always be the largest school in the Hocking, but at least they will all be in the smallest of the divisions together, so in that sense the size difference wouldn't matter anyways.

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Re: Any teams mentioned for expanding the TVC-Ohio to 8?

Post by BuckeyeCAV » Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:16 am

NYBuckeye96,

It would be nice to see some competitive teams come into the TVC-Ohio, but it wouldn't last long, before the old teams would start leaving due to losing more.

Look at the population of the SEOAL Schools and their cities and then look at the TVC-Ohio.

Everybody raves about how big VC is as a D3 school and they should play up. Then look at their school system and where they have to draw their kids from. The distance on the school bus ride. Look at the population of: McArthur, Zaleski, Allensville, Wilkesville, Hamden, Radcliff, Mineral, and Dundas. Compare VC with Chillicothe.

Likewise, Pomeroy and Middleport, check the comparison with Marietta.

Wellston verses Ironton.

Athens is the largest population center in the TVC-Ohio.

Albany, Shade, and Carbon Hill verses Gallipolis.

Belpre verses Portsmouth.

Nelsonville and Bucthel verses Jackson.

The cities and villages of the TVC-Ohio have no comparison with the likes of the SEOAL, except Athens.

That's why River Valley is the only team of choice to join the TVC-Ohio. The school is a D4 level school and is another rural school system, that fits the pattern of the TVC-Ohio Schools. Federal Hocking would be great to, but then you would be leaving the Hocking Division with only 5 teams left in it.

Anyone else, like a....Marietta, Warren, Gallipolis or Jackson, if invitedto join the TVC-Ohio, would eventually end up ruining the TVC-Ohio Division. Why? After a time-period of losing, many of the original TVC-Ohio Members would start to leave the conference. Especially if teams like that mentioned above where actually invited to join the TVC-Ohio.

Think about why Nelsonville-York, Wellston, Meigs and Athens left the SEOAL? I have to give N-Y kudos for playing Ironton this year. But where did they play Ironton at? And who won the game? Next year it will be at the TANK. Think if N-Y had to play Chillicothe, Logan, Marietta, Portsmouth, Ironton, Jackson, Zanesville and Warren every season? Would they still be as successful as they are in the TVC-Ohio?

Gallipolis can beat Ironton and did in 2006. Could Belpre? So could you see having Gallipolis in the TVC-Ohio? They would rule in every sport, as well as in football. Likewise, with the rest of those SEOAL Schools mentioned. Any 4 of those schools would run over everybody in most sports to include football, except Warren in football. But in Basketball, Track, Soccer, Volleyball, Warren would ruin sports for the other teams in the TVC-Ohio. Jackson would not be so great in basketball, but would run over every team in football year in and year out. The same goes for Marietta. As weak as they are in football within the SEOAL, they would rule the TVC-Ohio most years, to include all other sports too.

There is a reason the other schools departed the SEOAL after N-Y in 1970. You have to ask, why did Wellston, Meigs and Athens join the TVC-Ohio?

Likewise, one has to ask, why did River Valley leave the SEOAL in 2001?

If any one of those SEOAL schools were in the TVC-Ohio, I could see eventually Belpre and Alexander requesting to be placed into the Hocking Division. Wellston and Meigs requesting to transfer into the OVC, or..... forming a new league with Vinton County, Alexander, Belpre and River Valley. Thus, leaving N-Y and Athens in a TVC-Ohio with the new team or teams invited in the Ohio Division from the SEOAL.

I think River Valley is the TVC-Ohio Division's only natural choice. I guess if they are ever asked to join, first somebody in the TVC-Ohio will have to talk to Belpre and N-Y and tell them to let go of their past grudge and look to the future of the TVC-Ohio. Adding River Valley would not only be for football but for all sports.

That is, if River Valley who plays in the OVC now, is actually interested in joining the TVC-Ohio. If not, then Federal Hocking is it.

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Re: Any teams mentioned for expanding the TVC-Ohio to 8?

Post by BuckeyeCAV » Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:52 am

I would like to see a TVC in both divisions with:

TVC-Ohio
Vinton County D3
Wellston D4
River Valley D4
Meigs D4
Alexander D4
Athens D3
Nelsonville-York D5
Belpre D5

TVC Hocking
Waterford D6
Federal Hocking D5
Miller D6
Trimble D6
Eastern Meigs D6
Southern Meigs D6
Wahama, WV Class A
South Gallia D6

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Re: Any teams mentioned for expanding the TVC-Ohio to 8?

Post by mister b » Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:15 pm

Belpre requested one time to move to the Hocking and trade places with Federal Hocking. The Lancers said NO and when the proposal was brought back to Belpre by its former AD, she was told NO. I doubt very seriously that Belpre will ever ask to join the Hocking.

As for River Valley, they just don't fit other than being a rural school. Too much drive time. Just like Crooksville. Works for one or two schools but not everybody. You have to look at other sports beside football and boys basketball because that is all anybody thinks of. What of all the girls sports? Almost 100% of girls sports are played on a school night - long drive times and no time to study when you get back home. What of junior high sports? The TVC wants to have it's members play each other in junior high sports but how can you, realistically? And dont' say play on saturday because coaches give up too much of their time now that they don't want to give up a saturday on a regular basis. If you have a conference you are supposed to take in to account all of you sports, boys and girls. Travel costs last year ate school districts alive - hint - the key reason Ironton is leaving the SEOAL, look at their gates. (Trust me, the temporary drop in fuel price won't last, it will go back up.) Not just in football. Do you think the $70,000 dollars they lost in revenue was football only? Hardly, it was all sports and no football program in Southeastern Ohio pays for itself. They are lucky they break even once you factor in all costs, supplies and equipment, officials, coaches salaries and transportant etc.

Athens will start to dominant the TVC in a few short years. Winning breeds success, more kids want to play for a winner than for a loser. Football will take the longest time to turn it around but it will happen. The folks in the TVC looked at Athens as a loser who would come into the TVC and be a non-factor. I for one think it was wrong. That is why the TVC needs to add a couple more larger schools and split into 3 divisions. It is for the overall health of the league. The folks who voted to allow Athens to join will regret it very soon as they will dominate.

Warren, they didn't exactly rule the TVC when they were in it before. Yes, they would be a force but that is why you bring in larger teams and put them in a division based on enrollment, it helps out all the teams, large and small. The larger schools in southeastern Ohio cannot compete in their respective state tourneys because they play to many smaller schools and not enough games against competitive teams, especially football and basketball. A split into 3 divisions in the TVC would allow them to play some schools of their size in non-conference games and frankly the larger schools in the TVC now are in a position that they can take a short drive in almost any direction and get the games they need to benefit all their programs if they would choose to do so. The smaller TVC schools stand a much better chance of going much farther in the state tourneys then the other schools. Why? Because they play almost all of their games against teams of their size or larger.

I realize the TVC is looked down upon by others, but now is the time for people that make decisions for the TVC to be forward thinking, not run from the competition because a school is larger and might rule the league. Lack of guts and not doing what is right for your kids seems to be the way the TVC wants to operate. So, go ahead and hide TVC. Your moment to advance the league is now and you are letting it pass you by.

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Re: Any teams mentioned for expanding the TVC-Ohio to 8?

Post by BuckeyeCAV » Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:16 pm

Mister B wrote:Belpre requested one time to move to the Hocking and trade places with Federal Hocking. The Lancers said NO and when the proposal was brought back to Belpre by its former AD, she was told NO. I doubt very seriously that Belpre will ever ask to join the Hocking.

As for River Valley, they just don't fit other than being a rural school. Too much drive time. Just like Crooksville. Works for one or two schools but not everybody. You have to look at other sports beside football and boys basketball because that is all anybody thinks of. What of all the girls sports? Almost 100% of girls sports are played on a school night - long drive times and no time to study when you get back home. What of junior high sports? The TVC wants to have it's members play each other in junior high sports but how can you, realistically? And dont' say play on saturday because coaches give up too much of their time now that they don't want to give up a saturday on a regular basis. If you have a conference you are supposed to take in to account all of you sports, boys and girls. Travel costs last year ate school districts alive - hint - the key reason Ironton is leaving the SEOAL, look at their gates. (Trust me, the temporary drop in fuel price won't last, it will go back up.) Not just in football. Do you think the $70,000 dollars they lost in revenue was football only? Hardly, it was all sports and no football program in Southeastern Ohio pays for itself. They are lucky they break even once you factor in all costs, supplies and equipment, officials, coaches salaries and transportant etc.

Athens will start to dominant the TVC in a few short years. Winning breeds success, more kids want to play for a winner than for a loser. Football will take the longest time to turn it around but it will happen. The folks in the TVC looked at Athens as a loser who would come into the TVC and be a non-factor. I for one think it was wrong. That is why the TVC needs to add a couple more larger schools and split into 3 divisions. It is for the overall health of the league. The folks who voted to allow Athens to join will regret it very soon as they will dominate.

Warren, they didn't exactly rule the TVC when they were in it before. Yes, they would be a force but that is why you bring in larger teams and put them in a division based on enrollment, it helps out all the teams, large and small. The larger schools in southeastern Ohio cannot compete in their respective state tourneys because they play to many smaller schools and not enough games against competitive teams, especially football and basketball. A split into 3 divisions in the TVC would allow them to play some schools of their size in non-conference games and frankly the larger schools in the TVC now are in a position that they can take a short drive in almost any direction and get the games they need to benefit all their programs if they would choose to do so. The smaller TVC schools stand a much better chance of going much farther in the state tourneys then the other schools. Why? Because they play almost all of their games against teams of their size or larger.

I realize the TVC is looked down upon by others, but now is the time for people that make decisions for the TVC to be forward thinking, not run from the competition because a school is larger and might rule the league. Lack of guts and not doing what is right for your kids seems to be the way the TVC wants to operate. So, go ahead and hide TVC. Your moment to advance the league is now and you are letting it pass you by.


I agree to a point. But disagree about adding River Valley. I think they would fit well in the TVC-Ohio. I don't see that much further a drive from Alexander. The three divisions wouldn't work either, know matter how many get on here and rant about competition breeds better teams.

There is no way in you know what.....that MEIGS or VINTON COUNTY wants to be in a division with Marietta and Warren. Athens they have no choice and I assume not worried since they are already in the conference with Meigs and VC now. Marietta would rule that Big Division. As for Athens taken for granted by the TVC Teams, I agree to a point with that statement too. Athens will in the future, most likely dominate in Track, Tennis, Soccer, and at times in basketball. But not in Football. Even when I was in H.S. in the early 70's, we kicked Athens all over the field and they were a much larger school then while playing in the SEOAL. Now the school I went to is in the TVC-Ohio and again, they ran all over Athens this year at the Plains. Nothing will change that much about Athens Football, but a spurt or two once in a great while, winning the title. Soccer is the sport in Athens. There are what 3 schools that have Soccer in the TVC besides Athens. How many have Tennis besides Athens? Vinton County? As for Track, I could see them winning once in a while.

I understand the gut check statement and future leaning possibilities, the problem about a team that would begin to dominate over and over in several sports would eventually get teams like a Vinton County and Meigs in a TVC BIG DIVISION to leave the TVC. Thus looking at leagues like the OVC or SVC. Look at what a drive it would be from VC to Marietta :roll:

The statement CONCERNING that Belpre to Vinton, Ohio is to far, which I might add is where the new River Valley H.S. is going to be located, on State Rt. 160 is a cop out. 33 N to 32 E to 160 S is not that far. It's 57 miles from Belpre to Vinton Ohio.

It's 69 miles to Wellston from Belpre.

It's 63 miles to McArthur from Belpre.

It's 45 miles to Cheshire from Belpre. Where the football field is for RV.

Your arguement has no validation and is bogas concerning it's to far to drive to River Valley. I highlighted your false impression it's to far.

Motivator wrote:If my source is correct Warren won one TVC championship in football. I don't think anyone in the Ohio division would fear Warren. Gallia, Marietta, Jackson maybe. But not Warren. At least not in football.


You are right about Warren in Football, no one would be scared to see them enter the TVC-Ohio. But they would dominate in every other sport, year in and year out. There is the issue. In both Boys and Girls Sports.
Last edited by BuckeyeCAV on Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Any teams mentioned for expanding the TVC-Ohio to 8?

Post by mister b » Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:34 pm

BuckeyeCAV wrote:I would like to see a TVC in both divisions with:

TVC-Ohio
Vinton County D3
Wellston D4
River Valley D4
Meigs D4
Alexander D4
Athens D3
Nelsonville-York D5
Belpre D5

TVC Hocking
Waterford D6
Federal Hocking D5
Miller D6
Trimble D6
Eastern Meigs D6
Southern Meigs D6
Wahama, WV Class A
South Gallia D6


The SEOAL already tired adding a WV team in Point Pleasant and it didn't work. The season starting times between the 2 states don't jive and it caused too many problems. The TVC would be wise not to tire it. Plus, I really don't see what adding South Gallia to the TVC Hocking would do. They are out of the way, drive from Miller or Trimble to South Gallia and a regular schedule. The TVC added to many weaker sisters ( Miller, Eastern and Sounthern) over the years and ending up dumping them in the Hocking when the league decided to split into 2 divisions instead of 1 big conference. We don't need smaller teams in the TVC, we need larger teams. The TVC became a better league when it split into 2 divisions around a dozen or so years ago. another split into 3 would help it to grow stronger.

Yes, competition does breed success. Playing better teams will make you better. You have to do it slowly, not schedule over your head. Most AD's don't like change. Why? Because they have to do more work in finding teams to schedule. It is so easy to say, "...see you next year at your place..." The Ironton AD has a huge task in front of him.

By expanding the TVC with larger teams you can still play across the different divisions if you chose, but it will open up scheduling in the non-conference games that would be more competitive and add teams of local interest to the schedule which translate into more dollars and less travel time lost.

Also, I don't think Meigs would be affaird of playing Warren. They have added them to their schedule. Vinton probably won't vote for them to come in but I think Meigs would.

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Re: Any teams mentioned for expanding the TVC-Ohio to 8?

Post by BuckeyeCAV » Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:11 pm

Mister B wrote:
BuckeyeCAV wrote:I would like to see a TVC in both divisions with:

TVC-Ohio
Vinton County D3
Wellston D4
River Valley D4
Meigs D4
Alexander D4
Athens D3
Nelsonville-York D5
Belpre D5

TVC Hocking
Waterford D6
Federal Hocking D5
Miller D6
Trimble D6
Eastern Meigs D6
Southern Meigs D6
Wahama, WV Class A
South Gallia D6


The SEOAL already tired adding a WV team in Point Pleasant and it didn't work. The season starting times between the 2 states don't jive and it caused too many problems. The TVC would be wise not to tire it. Plus, I really don't see what adding South Gallia to the TVC Hocking would do. They are out of the way, drive from Miller or Trimble to South Gallia and a regular schedule. The TVC added to many weaker sisters ( Miller, Eastern and Sounthern) over the years and ending up dumping them in the Hocking when the league decided to split into 2 divisions instead of 1 big conference. We don't need smaller teams in the TVC, we need larger teams. The TVC became a better league when it split into 2 divisions around a dozen or so years ago. another split into 3 would help it to grow stronger.

Yes, competition does breed success. Playing better teams will make you better. You have to do it slowly, not schedule over your head. Most AD's don't like change. Why? Because they have to do more work in finding teams to schedule. It is so easy to say, "...see you next year at your place..." The Ironton AD has a huge task in front of him.

By expanding the TVC with larger teams you can still play across the different divisions if you chose, but it will open up scheduling in the non-conference games that would be more competitive and add teams of local interest to the schedule which translate into more dollars and less travel time lost.

Also, I don't think Meigs would be affaird of playing Warren. They have added them to their schedule. Vinton probably won't vote for them to come in but I think Meigs would.



Then add South Gallia to the Hocking Division. I doubt Meigs would vote for Warren or Marietta. Even though Meigs is playing Warren in non-league next year. Likewise, VC either. I don't see Wellston or Alexander voting for Warren either. There is 4 teams. So you have Belpre, N-Y and Athens wanting them in but loses the vote.

Even though Warren would be close, their fans and Marietta's fans don't travel well. I think if Belpre doesn't like the distance they already travel, they should demand to move to the Hocking Division. Then that leaves far less travel for the rest of the TVC-Ohio Teams. You actually would be doing them a favor by switching divisions.

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Re: Any teams mentioned for expanding the TVC-Ohio to 8?

Post by BuckeyeCAV » Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:33 pm

I have an odd feeling that if the TVC did vote to expand into 3 divisions, you would see another Athens....i.e., what they did to the SEOAL in 2006. Voting for the SEOAL expansion in 2004 and prior to the first game to played in the new expanded SEOAL in its opening season of 2006, they announce they are leaving the league to join the TVC-Ohio.

I could see the teams voting just to appease the know all new comer Athens and power N-Y and huff and puff Belpre and then leave the TVC-Ohio forming a new league ALONG with RV.

With the likes of:

Vinton County
Alexander
Wellston
Meigs
River Valley......Look at the travel with that SE-Ohio League. :-D

Then seeing those five make a pact to play OVC Teams to make up the difference who would also have 5 teams.



Then:

Athens
N-Y
Belpre
Warren
Marietta

..........could have at it as the TVC BIG Division. :-D

Maybe they could ask Parkersburg South to join too. Since Warren and Marietta already plays them. Being that Parkersburg-South is Independent. Lets see how Belpre and N-Y would play in that division. What would happen once N-Y stopped winning the crown? Getting defeated every year by Marietta and on a consecutive basis by Parkersburg South and at times by Warren?

Mercy.....they would have flashbacks of their Nelsonville Greyhound days.

And......they would have new comer Athens to thank for it. Pushing an agenda for a Bigger TVC expansion, when the Bulldogs could'nt stay in the SEOAL themselves.

And:

Trimble
Miller
Federal Hocking
Waterford
Eastern Meigs
Southern Meigs

Could still be the TVC LITTLE Division. :-D

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Re: Any teams mentioned for expanding the TVC-Ohio to 8?

Post by mister b » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:52 pm

NYBuckeye96 wrote:If you go by pure geography, Warren should be the 8th team. Every TVC team borders another TVC team in an almost perfect little box with the addition of Athens. The only differences are if a team is in the Ohio or Hocking. The only exception to this is that Waterford is out there by itself. However, Warren borders Federal Hocking, Belpre, and Waterford, thus closing in the last hole in the box. Again the only difference is if a team is Ohio or Hocking, but all of these schools border each other and are all in the TVC. At the same time, I doubt there will ever be enough votes in the TVC to let Warren back in, which is a shame.

Crooksville would have been an ideal alternative, but the Ceramics showed no interest in joining the TVC when invited last year. A downside is that for some schools, this would have been a long road trip, as Crooksville does not border any current TVC district.

The only other realistic alternative is River Valley. River Valley borders Southern, so geographically it does fit in the TVC box, although it would be at the extreme southern end of that box. I don't know if River Valley and the TVC will ever agree at the same time that they want each other. I think the biggest mistake River Valley made when it first became a school was snubbing the TVC for the SEOAL. The TVC offered (I believe unanimously offered) the Raiders a chance to join the league back when RV first consolidated, and the Raiders opted for the SEOAL. That was a huge mistake. Then after leaving the SEOAL, RV asked the TVC to let them in, but RV came one vote short of the required votes needed to be admitted at that time. I believe Belpre and Nelsonville-York were the two no votes and that was one too many no votes.

I just don't see any other realistic alternative other than the three schools mentioned: Warren, Crooksville, or RIver Valley. The only other option is a massive change in the TVC like the three division format mentioned above.

Under the above scenerio, you would have this:

Large School:
Marietta
Warren
Athens
Vinton County
Meigs

Medium School:
Alexander
Wellston
Belpre
Nelsonville-York
Federal Hocking

Small School:
Trimble
Miller
Southern
Eastern
Waterford

HOWEVER, I think that three division format would be a tough sell at Nelsonville-York, because NY would fall to the middle division based on school size, which wouldn't benefit the football program at all. Based on school size, the middle division would be: Alexander, Wellston, Belpre, Nelsonville-York, Federal Hocking. NY has dominated all of those schools in football with only Belpre having a somewhat competative record against NY. Alexander has never beat NY in football. Federal Hocking only has one win versus NY - in 1970. Wellston only has 9 wins vs. NY going back to consolidation. A three division format based on school size would not benefit NY football at all.

If NY was in the large school division for football, NY has winning records against all those schools too, but at least traditionally those schools have been more competative against NY. Meigs, Athens, (and even Warren) have been more competative against NY then Wellston, Alex, and FH. (NY has never played Marietta).

I would also argue that Alexander and NY would not want to end a new league rivalry with Athens they now have. The NY/Trimble rivalry lost something when it stopped counting for a league title, I don't care what anyone says. Sure its a rivalry, but its not the same as it used to be! I don't want to see NY or even Alex lose that league rivalry with Athens.



This is what I would think the TVC would look like with 3 divisions and the addition of Warren and Marietta. I don't see Belpre or Nelsonville wanting in the BIG division. They may play some crossover games and that would be fine but I think that would be it.

I realize that a lot of the TVC folks hate Belpre, but that comes when you have won over 100 TVC titles through the years. This includes titles when the league wasn't split in seperate divisions and, I realize that if there was someway to vote Belpre out of the league, there are members who would do it. :-D Including members that we helped to sponsor to get them into the TVC. But that is why the TVC is such a backward league. Very few think about what is good for the league when all they think about is what is good for themselves.

As for Meigs, they played Warren in football this year and lost 31-22 and still made the playoffs. I really don't think the folks in Pomeroy are affaird of anyone. Some other schools are. That is why they have sidebars to get the other schools to agree to proposals. You stratch my back and I'll stratch yours, nothing really gets done this way that promotes the league to becoming better.

I realize that adding Warren and Marietta are long shots at best. I guess we will add another team to the TVC Ohio in a year or 2 and it will probably be another weaker sister from another league. Thats what the TVC is known for doing best.

If I had a say in it, I would like for Belpre to get into another league.

Look at what the TVC charges you to be a member, a drop in the bucket compared to the SEOAL and all the AD's sit back and complain that they got a raw deal at the other TVC school because of their refs. :roll: Maybe upping the league membership another $1,000 to what the SEOAL charges ($1,500 I think) and we could have an assigner for league games. But that won't happen because nobody wants to spend money to improve the league and they are so affaird having someone else make a decision for them then they will get screwed.

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Re: Any teams mentioned for expanding the TVC-Ohio to 8?

Post by mister b » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:59 pm

Also, Parkersburg South isn't an independant, they are going to the OVAC only because they can't compete in WV's best conference MSAC.

Belpre has played Parkersburg and Parkersburg South over the years but they don't want to play us anymore other than junior high. I guess they got tired of seeing Belpre giving them a better game then what they thought. but they really shouldn't play a school as small as Belpre, nothing to gain for them.

Warren had some of it's better football teams when they were playing them some years ago. Maybe keeping them on their schedule will continue to help Warren's football program.

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Re: Any teams mentioned for expanding the TVC-Ohio to 8?

Post by BuckeyeCAV » Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:22 pm

Mister B,

If I am not wrong, both Warren and Marietta played Parkersburg South this year and both SEOAL Schools defeated Parkersburg South.

If Belpre left, what league would they go into?

I don't think anyone hates Belpre from the TVC. But they get tired of hearing the travel bit and THOSE THAT KEEP explaining RV is to far when in actuality, both Wellston and Vinton County is way further than RV from Belpre.

I think the TVC-Ohio will choose RV in the long run.

The only reason Athens wants to expand is so thy will have enough to play soccer. If Warren and Marietta joined, that would be enough for a TVC Title. With Trimble, Belpre, Athens, Alexander, Marietta and Warren that is one team over the required regulations to play for a league TITLE under OHSAA rules. Thus, it would give the TVC 6 teams for soccer.

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Re: Any teams mentioned for expanding the TVC-Ohio to 8?

Post by mister b » Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:08 pm

First, TVC rules state that to have a league champion crowned, there must be a least 1/2 of the total members of the league fielding teams in that sport. The OHSAA has nothing to do with crowning a league champ. Adding Warren and Marietta for soccer proposes only still won't get you to that number. Athens, Belpre, Alexander, Warren and Marietta. Adding Trimble to the list of soccer programs is a little soon. Athens knew coming into the TVC that there was no league title and that would probably never be. This includes tennis. So much for soccer being king in Athens. Would they let their BIG sport play each year without a title? NO! They got into the TVC to compete for leauge titles in football, basketball etc. Winning breeds success, but you can't understand that.

Travel, yeah it may be shorter to drive to Cheshire then to Wellston from Belpre in terms of mileage but not in terms of time. The road to Cheshire stinks. It is a nice 4 lane drive from Belpre to Athens, Alexander, Wellston, Nelsonville and Vinton for the most part. Even the 2 lane drive to Meigs, Eastern and Southern is much better than the bad roads to Cheshire. Next time drive the roads that MapQuest gives you before you make a statement about travel.

Plus, the other TVC schools are the ones that constantly complain about the drive to Belpre, not Belpre complaining about travel to them. Last year for basketball Vinton County sent 2 different sets of busses in basketball that left their school at different times for their games at Belpre. How cost effective is that? Bussing kids twice to get them there once?

Warren and Marietta should play Parkersburg South. It is a 15 minute drive to a school that equates to playing a D-1 Ohio school in terms of size. Plus, they should beat them. Everybody knows Ohio football is superior to WV football. ;-)

There is no league for Belpre to get into. The drive to schools in the PVC would be worse than the TVC. The MVL is out of the question in terms of school size and drive time. So, I don't see Belpre going anywhere unless some schools split off from the TVC but that is HIGHLY unlikely.

Adding River Valley, in my opinion, is not the way to go for the TVC to expand. I don't have a say in it but if I did I would vote no. I am against having more than 6 schools in any league or division. I like 5 non-conference and 5 conference football games. It gives you the chance to gain more computer points and doesn't require you to go 10-0 or 9-1 or 8-2 to get in the playoffs. Playing a schedule in which the conference beats each other up means only 1 or 2 teams (10-0 and 9-1) get in the playoffs. Half of a schedule with nonconference teams in any sport gives you more leeway in scheduling teams that benefit you in building a program and increasing your gate.

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Re: Any teams mentioned for expanding the TVC-Ohio to 8?

Post by WHSwarrior » Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:54 pm

BuckeyeCAV wrote:Mister B,

If I am not wrong, both Warren and Marietta played Parkersburg South this year and both SEOAL Schools defeated Parkersburg South.



uh-huh, and South went 8-2 and made the WV playoffs.
Chh!

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Re: Any teams mentioned for expanding the TVC-Ohio to 8?

Post by mister b » Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:00 pm

WHSwarrior wrote:
BuckeyeCAV wrote:Mister B,

If I am not wrong, both Warren and Marietta played Parkersburg South this year and both SEOAL Schools defeated Parkersburg South.



uh-huh, and South went 8-2 and made the WV playoffs.
Chh!


Point made that an average Ohio school is better than a playoff team in WV. ;-)

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