Logan is at a crossroad

The Fan
Waterboy
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:50 pm
Location: In The Valley

Re: Logan is at a crossroad

Post by The Fan » Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:45 pm

There are several underclassman primarily sophmores who had success in the junior high ranks and played as freshman who didnt return to the program this year. My son who is a sophmore and doesn't play sports says there will be more walking away from the program at seasons end. Skill players and some good lineman who can wreak havoc on the field. At what point does the administration ask themselves, why aren't kids buying into this program?



User avatar
TRENCHFOOT
SEOPS Mr. Ohio
Posts: 17215
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:17 pm
Location: ChieftainCountry

Re: Logan is at a crossroad

Post by TRENCHFOOT » Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:22 pm

Image

Raider6309
SEOPS H
Posts: 6690
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:00 pm
Location: Athens

Re: Logan is at a crossroad

Post by Raider6309 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:23 pm

The Fan wrote:
Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:45 pm
There are several underclassman primarily sophmores who had success in the junior high ranks and played as freshman who didnt return to the program this year. My son who is a sophmore and doesn't play sports says there will be more walking away from the program at seasons end. Skill players and some good lineman who can wreak havoc on the field. At what point does the administration ask themselves, why aren't kids buying into this program?
Hopefully they can keep those kids playing. Only a matter of time before Logan has a few good classes in a row

User avatar
moonshine
SEO
Posts: 2871
Joined: Sun May 22, 2011 10:12 pm

Re: Logan is at a crossroad

Post by moonshine » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:59 am

Truth&fiction wrote:
Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:15 pm
Raider6309 wrote:
Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:54 pm
Logan's AD is awful. Schedule winnable games
Now you're throwing the AD under the bus . Why don't you go after the custodians and the cooks while you at it ?
How about the school bus drivers, they are on the bus1 :mrgreen:

loganlocos
SEOP
Posts: 3263
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:50 pm

Re: Logan is at a crossroad

Post by loganlocos » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:26 am

dazed&confused wrote:
Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:25 pm
Let's be serious for a minute. Logan isn't going to compete with the Dublins of the world. They should be more than competitive with Sheridan and Athens. They should blow out teams like Meigs and Minford. 6-4 is not unrealistic every year.
I agree with this 100%.

loganlocos
SEOP
Posts: 3263
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:50 pm

Re: Logan is at a crossroad

Post by loganlocos » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:31 am

The Fan wrote:
Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:45 pm
There are several underclassman primarily sophmores who had success in the junior high ranks and played as freshman who didnt return to the program this year. My son who is a sophmore and doesn't play sports says there will be more walking away from the program at seasons end. Skill players and some good lineman who can wreak havoc on the field. At what point does the administration ask themselves, why aren't kids buying into this program?
TheFan -

I know of one sophomore who would have really helped this team that isn't playing. Other than that - there aren't really any stand out freshmen from last year who are not playing IMO.

In fact - the sophomores who I expected to contribute from last year's freshman team - Spatar, Horner, the Ruffs, Wyckoff, Kisor, Miller - are all doing so this year (or have been injured). Only Kline from that group isn't contributing.

loganlocos
SEOP
Posts: 3263
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:50 pm

Re: Logan is at a crossroad

Post by loganlocos » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:43 am

Alright - first some facts:

This is - without a doubt - the worst decade in the history of the program. And by some distance.

Since 2010, the post Dale Amyx era, Logan is 32-48 overall for a .389 win percentage. There have been only two winning seasons and five losing seasons (plus this season which will at best be .500)

For context, the best and worst decades:

2000-2009: 86-24, .781 (9 winning seasons, 0 losing seasons)
1960-1969: 65-28-1, .696 (9 winning seasons, 0 losing seasons)

1920-1929: 38-38-8, .500 (4 winning seasons, 4 losing seasons)
1950-1959: 42-42-6, .500 (5 winning seasons, 4 losing seasons)
1990-1999: 54-57, .534 (6 winning seasons, 4 losing seasons)



The post Amyx era started with Coach Wolfe, whose teams with 6-24 over three seasons, the best being a 3-7 record in 2010.

The current staff is 24-23 over nearly five seasons with two winning seasons, 1 (likely two) losing seasons.


Only five (of 21) coaches in school history finished with a below .500 record in the SEOAL-era (1925 to present). Eleven of those coaches were .600 or better in their tenure.

loganlocos
SEOP
Posts: 3263
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:50 pm

Re: Logan is at a crossroad

Post by loganlocos » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:50 am

Now - it's also important to recognize a couple of points:

1) I don't think the talent has been overwhelming over the last decade - even if EVERY kid we're talking about leaving stayed in the program. The 2015 team was extremely talented - and went 8-2. One loss was to a dominating DeSales team. This is the team that was MOST hurt by defections, as they had zero depth at the LB/RB spots and it might have cost them the Jackson game (and a playoff spot) when Bryce McBride got hurt on the first play.

2) The schedule, largely thanks to the ever shrinking SEOAL, has gotten more and more challenging. In the 50s, 60s, and 70s games with Middleport, Nelsonville/Nelsonville-York, Waverly, and Wellston provided annual cannon fodder while the '80s and '90s added Marietta and River Valley to replace Middleport and Waverly/Wellston.


The early '80s, the last time Logan played so few games against SEOAL competition, saw records of 7-3 (80), 1-8-1 (81), 5-4-1 (82), 3-7 (83), and 3-7 (84).

Marietta and Warren joined the SEOAL in 85 and 86 respectively.

loganlocos
SEOP
Posts: 3263
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:50 pm

Re: Logan is at a crossroad

Post by loganlocos » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:59 am

With all that said, Logan hasn't been WITHOUT talent, and I don't believe all of a sudden there has been a decade's worth of "worst talent" in school history.

In fact, guys like Paul Wesselhoeft (ODU), Isaiah Smith (ODU), and Kory Henthorne (Findlay) all were recruited to play at the next level. There haven't been a lot of guys in the last 15-20 years who can say the same - at least when it comes to being recruited to scholarship schools like the three I mentioned.

From '00-'09 the number of guys on recruited for scholarships are Joey Conrad (Glenville State, D2) Justin Pack (ODU), and Patrick Angle (YSU). A few other guys walked on and earned a scholarship, but weren't recruited to scholarship awarding schools.

And although the schedules have been more challenging, blowout losses to Nelsonville-York (6-42 in 2011, 0-50 in 2012, 0-35 in 2016), losses to Warren (2011, 2012), Portsmouth (2011), Northland (2012), Newark (2012) and Meigs (2016) haven't been great looks.
Last edited by loganlocos on Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

loganlocos
SEOP
Posts: 3263
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:50 pm

Re: Logan is at a crossroad

Post by loganlocos » Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:07 am

Now - narrowing in on THIS staff. I will say this:

2013: 6-4 record, 4-0 SEOAL Champs - Overachieved. The program was truly a dumpster fire. 2012 ended with a near brawl between parents/coaches/players. Perhaps the lowest point. Logan lost their starting QB in the first quarter of a blowout loss to Lancaster. They put in a fullback to play quarterback and won six of nine games with losses coming to playoff teams in Loudonville and Zanesville (who reached the final 4).

2014: 5-5 record, 3-1 SEOAL - About right. Defense really struggled to stop anyone. Lost in 2OT to Lancaster and followed it up with a loss to Teays Valley where Logan scored 40 points. TV made the playoffs. Lost at Loudonville (another playoff team). One of Jackson's best team ever IMO.

2015: 8-2 record, 2-1 SEOAL - Overachieved again. Talented team with Little, Smith, McBride. Again struggled on defense. Losses were to Jackson and DeSales who both lost to a really good Zanesville team in the playoffs. Jackson made the regional final.

2016: 3-7 record, 1-1 SEOAL - Again overachieved. One of the worst rosters in school history, four freshmen lettered along with a number of sophomores. I truly expected a pair of 0-9 teams in week 10 against Warren. Beat Athens. Shut out a bad Hamilton Ross team.

2017: 2-5 record - First real underachievement. I thought the floor for this team was 4 wins and the ceiling about 7. The floor is still achievable, but blowout losses to Teays, Sheridan, and Chilli combine with close wins over Meigs and Minford haven't been great signs. If this group can with 2 of the last three I think there is a foundation to build on.

loganlocos
SEOP
Posts: 3263
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:50 pm

Re: Logan is at a crossroad

Post by loganlocos » Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:24 am

I will also say this -

Logan has ALWAYS had great football players walking the hallways.

The 2007 team had a potential All-Ohio G/DE not play.

The 2005-2006 team - deep at every position - had a once in a generation running back not play.


So this is not a new phenomenon. It WAS really bad when Burke and company took over, but I think its one problem that has been fixed by in large. You also don't see kids quitting before the season is over - I was looking down the sidelines on Friday night and guys are either playing or on the sidelines in khakis and jerseys - they aren't in the stands.

Paladin
SEOP
Posts: 3333
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:13 pm
Location: Warren-Youngstown, Ohio metro area

Re: Logan is at a crossroad

Post by Paladin » Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:32 am

Some of the complaints I'm hearing centers around not getting athletes out for the team and chasing off players who have been on the team. In football, numbers add up quick and it only takes a couple of players to dramatically improve a team.

More recently, a story was shared to me about a player leaving the team over an outburst by the coach. Centered around a Saturday team meeting in which the player brought donuts there and the coach blew up and kicked over a table. The player supposedly quit the team on the spot.

Logan is a town with a lot of youth programs and not just football. Youth baseball and basketball are very active, among other sports. Athletes are IDed early. Yet for all the athletes that could play a part in football, many are opting to shy away from the biggest sport in town. Why ?

It's often said in coaching circles that being liked by athletes will attract a number of them to come out. But failing that, you will get kids who may not like you, but do RESPECT you to come out. When they neither like you nor respect you, the program fails and often big time.

What I'm hearing now raises big questions.
Have gun, will travel

Truth&fiction
Varsity
Posts: 476
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:36 am

Re: Logan is at a crossroad

Post by Truth&fiction » Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:04 am

Paladin wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:32 am
Some of the complaints I'm hearing centers around not getting athletes out for the team and chasing off players who have been on the team. In football, numbers add up quick and it only takes a couple of players to dramatically improve a team.

More recently, a story was shared to me about a player leaving the team over an outburst by the coach. Centered around a Saturday team meeting in which the player brought donuts there and the coach blew up and kicked over a table. The player supposedly quit the team on the spot.

Logan is a town with a lot of youth programs and not just football. Youth baseball and basketball are very active, among other sports. Athletes are IDed early. Yet for all the athletes that could play a part in football, many are opting to shy away from the biggest sport in town. Why ?

It's often said in coaching circles that being liked by athletes will attract a number of them to come out. But failing that, you will get kids who may not like you, but do RESPECT you to come out. When they neither like you nor respect you, the program fails and often big time.

What I'm hearing now raises big questions.
Coaches kicking over tables is a poor example . That shows lack of respect and that carries over to the players . Agree that you do need a coach that can reach out to the players . Lots of talented kids are not playing . I still think they will win 2 of the last 3. 4-6

formerfcfan
All State
Posts: 1007
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 2:41 pm
Location: Amanda, OH

Re: Logan is at a crossroad

Post by formerfcfan » Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:21 am

What role, if any, does socioeconomics play in terms of football numbers and consequent talent?

Also wonder if we'll see any Logan kids defect to Berne for football.

Thanos
Riding the Bench
Posts: 96
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:08 am

Re: Logan is at a crossroad

Post by Thanos » Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:30 am

formerfcfan wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:21 am
What role, if any, does socioeconomics play in terms of football numbers and consequent talent?

Also wonder if we'll see any Logan kids defect to Berne for football.
You will never see Logan kids defect to Berne Union for football. Now they will defect for baseball or basketball. Very sad to hear about the donuts.

User avatar
moonshine
SEO
Posts: 2871
Joined: Sun May 22, 2011 10:12 pm

Re: Logan is at a crossroad

Post by moonshine » Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:37 am

Paladin wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:32 am
Some of the complaints I'm hearing centers around not getting athletes out for the team and chasing off players who have been on the team. In football, numbers add up quick and it only takes a couple of players to dramatically improve a team.

More recently, a story was shared to me about a player leaving the team over an outburst by the coach. Centered around a Saturday team meeting in which the player brought donuts there and the coach blew up and kicked over a table. The player supposedly quit the team on the spot.

Logan is a town with a lot of youth programs and not just football. Youth baseball and basketball are very active, among other sports. Athletes are IDed early. Yet for all the athletes that could play a part in football, many are opting to shy away from the biggest sport in town. Why ?

It's often said in coaching circles that being liked by athletes will attract a number of them to come out. But failing that, you will get kids who may not like you, but do RESPECT you to come out. When they neither like you nor respect you, the program fails and often big time.

What I'm hearing now raises big questions.

There is a time and a place to blow up like that and DONUTS is a poor reason! We had coaches that liked Donuts from Walsh's. especially Coach Nardo! :mrgreen:

farmer
SEOP
Posts: 3217
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: Logan is at a crossroad

Post by farmer » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:02 am

Say what you want about Logan. Even when some have talked to a few students. Get the AD to form a questionaire and to be filled out in homeroom. Sure you will get some not being truthful but you may get some responses you are not thinking of. Since it is from their viewpoint. Also do it for the Coaches and Teachers. As well as maybe the parents of players and non players. Just an idea because Logan will have to still play games. Dropping some off the schedule sure makes it hard to pick up later.

Paladin
SEOP
Posts: 3333
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:13 pm
Location: Warren-Youngstown, Ohio metro area

Re: Logan is at a crossroad

Post by Paladin » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:08 am

Coach Nardo. Now there is a name from the past. I coached with Bill Nardo at Logan. Great guy. Saw Bill often after I left at coaches clinics and when he left Logan, he was the HC at Lucas, near Mansfield. When I was a HC, Bill often would show up scouting at some of my games looking at the team we were playing.

After coaching, I continued to run into him at college games, often for MAC games at Kent St.

The man loved his donuts, lol.
Have gun, will travel

User avatar
hawkeyepierce
All State
Posts: 1406
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 12:48 pm

Re: Logan is at a crossroad

Post by hawkeyepierce » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:35 am

Vinton County has been going through this since 2000. To me, it is cultural.

With technology today, especially, right at their finger tips, kids are not obligated or have a sense of community to play football on Friday nights. When I was in school, football games were community events. Win or lose, we would have 2,000 to 4,000 people attend games. Communities hated each other, there was a rivalry feel to almost every game. And at the end of the season, fall banquet tickets were highly sought after.

But today, kids' community is broader, it includes the kid from a rival school. Dying mom and pop shops, have been replaced by corporate giants, that in our case we have to commute to, as opposed to shopping and staying home, building that communal pride.

Furthermore, with technology, there is more for the kid to do. There is the internet, Xbox, cable, Netflix, and so on. No one has to leave the house to be fully entertain today. We are lucky to get 1,000 to 1,500 people to a game on a Friday night. Our basketball gates, have been bigger than some our football gates.

And then there is a case for the specialized athlete. Little Johnny is a basketball player, and that is it.

One more thing, kids do not want to be a part of losing program, they can be instantly satisfied, be a winner, with the device in their hand. However, in order to win, schools need those kids. So it is kind of a Catch-22.

Just my opinion.

Good luck to Logan.

User avatar
dazed&confused
SEOPS H
Posts: 7486
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:39 am
Location: On the road making sales!

Re: Logan is at a crossroad

Post by dazed&confused » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:37 am

This thread is beginning to sound like the general store scene in Hoosiers. As Locos said, it's been a down decade. I'm sure there will be questions raised at the end of the year as there should be. If the administrators and AD feel the program is on the right track, the current coach will remain. Maybe changes are needed, maybe the whole program but I'm not qualified or close enough to the situation to have an educated opinion. Just like everyone else, I'd like to see a return to prominence by the program.

Post Reply