2018 Vinton County Vikings Football Outlook

[Captain America]

Okay, after reading through all of the posts over the past few months here is a quick recap of events...

A handful of people within the community don't like the fact that Downs was hired after Wellman left and don't like the way he runs his team, which included a member of his own coaching staff. So they work to have him removed as coach. Downs finds out about it and doesn't want said member on his staff anymore. Because the community members didn't get their way, they have chosen to take their children to other school districts.

That pretty well seems to sum up the situations...unless there are some other stones left unturned.

Hopefully everything is settled, and the student-athletes and the communities can focus on the upcoming season.

Best wishes to all of the student-athletes at all schools. Hopefully all programs, athletes, and coaches involved have successful seasons.

[Ironman92]

Was something deleted? Was it untrue or too much?

[Orange and Brown]

Was something deleted? Was it untrue or too much?

It was to much.

I think it's time to move on as well. What happened, happened.
It's time to talk about football.

[Dundas]

I understand this is a touchy subjuect for some and I can’t say that I agree with either side 100%, BUT, let me just throw some numbers out there.

Since the beginning of Vinton County football way back in 1966, VC has been historically awful. With the exception of a 15 year run in the 80’s and 90’s, winning seasons in VC have been few and far between. I’m going to give you some numbers that may surprise some of you.

Since 1966, VC has had 19 different head coaches. Only 4 (four), FOUR of them have a WINNING RECORD. Can you guess which 4? I’m sure a lot of people would call the obvious two, O’Rourke and Queen. The other two may be difficult for some to come up with. Or admit for that matter. Here’s the list of regular season win/loss totals.

Jack O’Rourke 47 wins, 13 losses (1988-1993)
Matt Queen 40 wins, 30 losses (1994-2000)
Jeff Downs 26 wins, 24 losses (03-05, 16-present)
Scott Blakeley 11 wins, 9 losses (86-87)

Also, let me point out. Since the year 2001, Vinton County has had 5 different head coaches. Only one of which has had a winning season which was done twice (03 and 04). Here’s the list.

Joe Helmsley 3 wins, 17 losses (01-02)
Jeff Downs 17 wins, 13 losses (03-05)
Nolan Yates 11 wins, 29 losses (06-09)
Justy Burelson 11 wins, 39 losses (10-14)
Shane Wellman 3 wins, 7 losses (15)
Jeff Downs 9 wins, 11 losses (16-present)

Does anyone see a trend? Say what you want about talent. The numbers speak for themselves. Vinton County has constantly churned out 1 to 2 to 3 win seasons over the last 50 years. We have a head coach that currently has the 3rd most wins in school history and is 2 decent seasons away from moving into second on that list. Let’s stop looking at the negatives and start looking at the positives. I have seen this community back our teams like no other. This years football squad may need it more than any before them. Let’s rally together and SUPPORT OUR KIDS!

[Ironman92]

I understand this is a touchy subjuect for some and I can’t say that I agree with either side 100%, BUT, let me just throw some numbers out there.

Since the beginning of Vinton County football way back in 1966, VC has been historically awful. With the exception of a 15 year run in the 80’s and 90’s, winning seasons in VC have been few and far between. I’m going to give you some numbers that may surprise some of you.

Since 1966, VC has had 19 different head coaches. Only 4 (four), FOUR of them have a WINNING RECORD. Can you guess which 4? I’m sure a lot of people would call the obvious two, O’Rourke and Queen. The other two may be difficult for some to come up with. Or admit for that matter. Here’s the list of regular season win/loss totals.

Jack O’Rourke 47 wins, 13 losses (1988-1993)
Matt Queen 40 wins, 30 losses (1994-2000)
Jeff Downs 26 wins, 24 losses (03-05, 16-present)
Scott Blakeley 11 wins, 9 losses (86-87)

Also, let me point out. Since the year 2001, Vinton County has had 5 different head coaches. Only one of which has had a winning season which was done twice (03 and 04). Here’s the list.

Joe Helmsley 3 wins, 17 losses (01-02)
Jeff Downs 17 wins, 13 losses (03-05)
Nolan Yates 11 wins, 29 losses (06-09)
Justy Burelson 11 wins, 39 losses (10-14)
Shane Wellman 3 wins, 7 losses (15)
Jeff Downs 9 wins, 11 losses (16-present)

Does anyone see a trend? Say what you want about talent. The numbers speak for themselves. Vinton County has constantly churned out 1 to 2 to 3 win seasons over the last 50 years. We have a head coach that currently has the 3rd most wins in school history and is 2 decent seasons away from moving into second on that list. Let’s stop looking at the negatives and start looking at the positives. I have seen this community back our teams like no other. This years football squad may need it more than any before them. Let’s rally together and SUPPORT OUR KIDS!

Poor Joe lol

[CA KILLER]

I understand this is a touchy subjuect for some and I can’t say that I agree with either side 100%, BUT, let me just throw some numbers out there.

Since the beginning of Vinton County football way back in 1966, VC has been historically awful. With the exception of a 15 year run in the 80’s and 90’s, winning seasons in VC have been few and far between. I’m going to give you some numbers that may surprise some of you.

Since 1966, VC has had 19 different head coaches. Only 4 (four), FOUR of them have a WINNING RECORD. Can you guess which 4? I’m sure a lot of people would call the obvious two, O’Rourke and Queen. The other two may be difficult for some to come up with. Or admit for that matter. Here’s the list of regular season win/loss totals.

Jack O’Rourke 47 wins, 13 losses (1988-1993)
Matt Queen 40 wins, 30 losses (1994-2000)
Jeff Downs 26 wins, 24 losses (03-05, 16-present)
Scott Blakeley 11 wins, 9 losses (86-87)

Also, let me point out. Since the year 2001, Vinton County has had 5 different head coaches. Only one of which has had a winning season which was done twice (03 and 04). Here’s the list.

Joe Helmsley 3 wins, 17 losses (01-02)
Jeff Downs 17 wins, 13 losses (03-05)
Nolan Yates 11 wins, 29 losses (06-09)
Justy Burelson 11 wins, 39 losses (10-14)
Shane Wellman 3 wins, 7 losses (15)
Jeff Downs 9 wins, 11 losses (16-present)

Does anyone see a trend? Say what you want about talent. The numbers speak for themselves. Vinton County has constantly churned out 1 to 2 to 3 win seasons over the last 50 years. We have a head coach that currently has the 3rd most wins in school history and is 2 decent seasons away from moving into second on that list. Let’s stop looking at the negatives and start looking at the positives. I have seen this community back our teams like no other. This years football squad may need it more than any before them. Let’s rally together and SUPPORT OUR KIDS!

All true of course Dundas. Good work as always. Cant argue with the numbers those are facts. And i believe you like everyone involved wants whats best for the VC program. I would suggest to not evaluate on records alone though. Honestly for example how many games should have the 04 team won by just showing up? What i mean is out of the 10 games on the schedule that year how many teams did they play that was as talented or more talented than them? My opinion is 1 team that season JACKSON with Humphreys was the only team they played that had as much talent as them. Same can be said for the 01 team 02 team etc etc. For example Joe Hemsley was a good football coach, IMO knowledgeable, organized, understands football didn't have a good record. Also it could be argued Matt Queens run as VC coach was far more difficult schedule wise than Jack Orourke's.

As far as this years squad VC has talent! Actually they have alot of talent and should win some games regardless of the transfers and what has happened throughout the year.. You as a program will find out alot about your coaching staff this season..

[hawkeyepierce]

I just love how O&B thinks that it was too much. I am very much a free speech advocate and as long it did not break the normal tenets of decency it should have been left alone. After all, if you want to know a person, let them speak, and then they reveal their soul. Just same as, "It is to better to be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt." His/Her words are so much more about them than it is of the situation.

Next, Captain America, (my second favorite Avenger), your recap is pretty much spot on, except, Coach Yates, had nothing to do with what the parents were doing. I know, not only have I spoken with Coach Yates, who has never said a bad word about Coach Downs publicly until after February 16th; I have spoken with the parents, including the ones that "transferred" and even those who stayed and not allowing their son to play football. They all have said, that they did not include, confer, and/or associate with Coach Yates while they expressed their concerns. In fact, everyone of them expressed their remorse and feel just awful for how Coach Yates was caught up in their pursuit, in their minds, of bettering the program. Just about all of them, coached at the lower levels, they have donated time, money, and resources to the football program. And, right or wrong, they felt like they were not taken seriously, and made changes based on what they perceived to be better for them, as a family. Many, have said that they (those that have moved) simply did not get their way, and selfishly left, that is an oversimplification and an obtuse way of thinking.

Now, I am fearful on many levels. First, Coach Downs, has his program, he has to make it work or he will have to own it. The problem with the casual Viking football fan, they only care about results on the field. Therefore, I am afraid that if the Vikings are not successful, those murmurs that were heard last year will be screaming loudly for change. And then here we are again, starting over. Secondly, if we are starting over, (and I hope not, I hope Coach Downs is willing to put in the next 20 years), who will be left to pick up the pieces. Meaning, we lost a lot of good resources, resources that can and probably will go to Jackson and Wellston now and in the future. But just not only resources, but relationships, to build, foster, and maintain relationships, are just important as having a good stats guy, or a great offensive coordinator. For example, I have watched my friend Coach Combs build a very solid program from top to bottom, and he has been able to maintain it, but he didn't do it by himself, he will be the first to tell you that. It takes several people, relationships that he has built, foster, and maintained, and that itself takes a tremendous amount of trust and commitment.

Therefore, to those who say, we want the football program where the basketball program is, (respected and admired), it does not only take time, but it takes relationships that are built over said time and built on trust and commitment. And that my friends, is never readily available.

[hawkeyepierce]

I understand this is a touchy subjuect for some and I can’t say that I agree with either side 100%, BUT, let me just throw some numbers out there.

Since the beginning of Vinton County football way back in 1966, VC has been historically awful. With the exception of a 15 year run in the 80’s and 90’s, winning seasons in VC have been few and far between. I’m going to give you some numbers that may surprise some of you.

Since 1966, VC has had 19 different head coaches. Only 4 (four), FOUR of them have a WINNING RECORD. Can you guess which 4? I’m sure a lot of people would call the obvious two, O’Rourke and Queen. The other two may be difficult for some to come up with. Or admit for that matter. Here’s the list of regular season win/loss totals.

Jack O’Rourke 47 wins, 13 losses (1988-1993)
Matt Queen 40 wins, 30 losses (1994-2000)
Jeff Downs 26 wins, 24 losses (03-05, 16-present)
Scott Blakeley 11 wins, 9 losses (86-87)

Also, let me point out. Since the year 2001, Vinton County has had 5 different head coaches. Only one of which has had a winning season which was done twice (03 and 04). Here’s the list.

Joe Helmsley 3 wins, 17 losses (01-02)
Jeff Downs 17 wins, 13 losses (03-05)
Nolan Yates 11 wins, 29 losses (06-09)
Justy Burelson 11 wins, 39 losses (10-14)
Shane Wellman 3 wins, 7 losses (15)
Jeff Downs 9 wins, 11 losses (16-present)

Does anyone see a trend? Say what you want about talent. The numbers speak for themselves. Vinton County has constantly churned out 1 to 2 to 3 win seasons over the last 50 years. We have a head coach that currently has the 3rd most wins in school history and is 2 decent seasons away from moving into second on that list. Let’s stop looking at the negatives and start looking at the positives. I have seen this community back our teams like no other. This years football squad may need it more than any before them. Let’s rally together and SUPPORT OUR KIDS!

You are right. But as CA is saying, there is a lot more to those years than just their record. For example, Joe Hemsley played mostly freshmen and sophomores, he had too, and when Coach Downs took over, they were juniors and seniors. Coach Yates was hampered by a difficult non-conference schedule every year, in fact, for two seasons, all of his losses were to teams that made the playoffs that season. In my opinion, both Coach Burleson and Coach Wellman, were victims of their own schemes, both employed some sort of mid-line veer offense, unless you have the right players, can be easily defended. And even if you go back to Coach O'Rouke's years, he didn't always beat the teams he should have, I believe that he beat Nelsonville-York once, Jackson once, and maybe Belpre once. I am just saying, there is more to it, and those are separate conversations.

[Bringdanoise]

Ask Navy if the option is easy to defend...

[hawkeyepierce]

Funny...but again, Navy HAVE the right personnel, Vikings didn't.

[Poo Bear]

Funny...but again, Navy HAVE the right personnel, Vikings didn't.

I wonder what would’ve happened if Matt Queen wasn’t fired after 1 losing season . The guy won 3 TVC titles in 6 years and after 1 down season he was let go. I liked that VC had an established identity under Coach Queen , the wishbone . Coach Queen loved VC football , he continues to reside in McArthur . He did have some nice talent but even in the down years I think coach queen would’ve won 4-5 games, especially with the current schedule. Coach Queen would’ve gave the Vikes what they need most , stability .

[Bringdanoise]

I am still going to have to disagree with you about the option and needing certain personnel. Navy has the right players for their system because they can recruit, I get that. But, there are a lot of high school teams out there that run the option and are very successful that cannot recruit. How is it they have the "right personnel" each year? It is called coaching and being about to teach your system. I would actually assume in a place like VC, which is not loaded with great players, the option would be a rather nice offense to run.

[Poo Bear]

I am still going to have to disagree with you about the option and needing certain personnel. Navy has the right players for their system because they can recruit, I get that. But, there are a lot of high school teams out there that run the option and are very successful that cannot recruit. How is it they have the "right personnel" each year? It is called coaching and being about to teach your system. I would actually assume in a place like VC, which is not loaded with great players, the option would be a rather nice offense to run.

Agree but the wishbone not the option. Even though there was some option plays involved .

[hawkeyepierce]

I am not going to argue over option/mid-line veer/wishbone offenses. In MY OPINION ONLY, they are antiquated offenses. They are predictable in the sense, there is no or very little passing, and everything is done usually inside the box, between the tackles. My point being, having athletes, and Vinton County, don't always have a short supply of them, is getting athletes in space. I would much rather have an athlete in the open field as opposed to a bruiser in the box, grinding out three yards.

That was one reason why I was very excited to have Coach Downs come back, I knew, with Coach Yates, that they were going to the spread offense. In that two years, the last two years, those Vikings team re-wrote the record book. Why? They had their athlete in space, guys like, Naylan Yates, Nevan Yates, Jaden Spires, Hunter Nichols, D.J. Stevens, Lincoln Hayes, Derek Stevens, and many others, making plays, gaining yardage, scoring points. Prior to that, three to four kids handled the ball, Coach Downs' first year back, fourteen different kids touched the ball. That makes it fun for the kids, and the community, it is an overall better product to watch.

This year, without any Yates...they are going to an I back offense. Again, not a big fan, although, if ran right and more like pro set with multiple formation and motions, could be quite successful. However, I am afraid that we are just going to line up and try to play smash-mouth football from the I, with a few Iso, or inside the box counters. Again, if you are scouting, it would be easy to pick up on tendencies, making it predictable.

[Poo Bear]

The wishbone requires 3 backs and an athletic quarterback. Take all the “athletes” you want . Take a VC team from the wishbone era and watch em chew up yardage and the clock. MY OPINION ONLY.

[hawkeyepierce]

Yes. You are correct. But again, that was a different time. Furthermore, if your behind in the second half by two scores, the wishbone, I, mid-line veer, option, I wouldn’t want to be in. Just saying.

[Poo Bear]

Yes. You are correct. But again, that was a different time. Furthermore, if your behind in the second half by two scores, the wishbone, I, mid-line veer, option, I wouldn’t want to be in. Just saying.

I just think the Bone works better for the VC athlete . The naylan yates are once in 25 year type players . But I guess so are ball fake maestros like andy booth lol

[Jason Vorhees]

The problem with the history of Vinton County football is they've never found an identity that's suitable for their personell year in and out. Got to find a coach who will bring in a system from the lower grades on up and stick with it. I think there's a large untapped football wealth within the Vinton County community.

[hawkeyepierce]

According to twitter, the Vikings had a pool party yesterday or Wednesday. They are doing things together, as a team.

[hawkeyepierce]

You can follow the Vikings on twitter at @VCVIKINGSFB