OHSAA FOOTBALL PLAYOFFS ?

enigmaax
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Re: OHSAA FOOTBALL PLAYOFFS ?

Post by enigmaax »

FANOSPORTS wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:17 am
enigmaax wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:56 am
Otto wrote: Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:51 pm The creation of D7 was a mistake. I think the system was better off with only D1-D6. Even the state championships got so bloated that they had to add a Thursday game to accomodate all the divisions. As it has been mentioned here and on other sites, it seems that the expansion was not really made to help out the small schools, but rather to take pressure off of the D1 schools. Right now there are a lot of schools who are in D2 who should really be in D1.

It's obvious how this just waters down the divisions. Teams that made the playoffs once every 10 years or had never even made the playoffs before now get in routinely. This is the equivalent of the "give every kid a trophy" mentality that plagues sports these days.
Having 7 State Champions among 600+ schools, where each one is earned by winning half the number of regular season contests and competing against reasonably similar sized schools is “giving every kid a trophy”? Sorry, that is just a ridiculous statement.
The "trophy" to most is just being 1 of the 224 teams in the playoffs when realistically speaking only about 1/3 of that total is a true contender or have a punchers chance to get the title.
I guess I just don’t understand the travesty of giving kids a chance. Even winning a single playoff game, especially pulling an upset, creates an experience for hundreds/thousands of people. It isn’t a trophy, it is an opportunity to win a trophy and only 7 of those 200+ schools get that. The others, get to work hard for an extra week or few, and see where they stack up against the best. As far as percentage of participants, almost literally every single other sport and level of competition opens its championship tournament to at least the same pool (CFP being the obvious exception and people whine tirelessly about how that field needs to expand). Welcome to America, we like big tournaments and in high school sports it makes particular sense because there’s no scheduling balance at all.


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Re: OHSAA FOOTBALL PLAYOFFS ?

Post by FANOSPORTS »

enigmaax wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:12 pm
FANOSPORTS wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:17 am
enigmaax wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:56 am
Having 7 State Champions among 600+ schools, where each one is earned by winning half the number of regular season contests and competing against reasonably similar sized schools is “giving every kid a trophy”? Sorry, that is just a ridiculous statement.
The "trophy" to most is just being 1 of the 224 teams in the playoffs when realistically speaking only about 1/3 of that total is a true contender or have a punchers chance to get the title.
I guess I just don’t understand the travesty of giving kids a chance. Even winning a single playoff game, especially pulling an upset, creates an experience for hundreds/thousands of people. It isn’t a trophy, it is an opportunity to win a trophy and only 7 of those 200+ schools get that. The others, get to work hard for an extra week or few, and see where they stack up against the best. As far as percentage of participants, almost literally every single other sport and level of competition opens its championship tournament to at least the same pool (CFP being the obvious exception and people whine tirelessly about how that field needs to expand). Welcome to America, we like big tournaments and in high school sports it makes particular sense because there’s no scheduling balance at all.
Yes, kids and communities rightfully so are always elated during this time of year if they're chosen for the playoffs. I just think personally that a lot of exploitation for greed and more $$$$ has reared it's ugly head in the OHSAA over the years much like in politics and corporate america . It's more like a business than ever and you sometimes wonder what leverage is used and what factors into their decision making processes. :?:


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enigmaax
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Re: OHSAA FOOTBALL PLAYOFFS ?

Post by enigmaax »

FANOSPORTS wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:38 pm
enigmaax wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:12 pm
FANOSPORTS wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:17 am

The "trophy" to most is just being 1 of the 224 teams in the playoffs when realistically speaking only about 1/3 of that total is a true contender or have a punchers chance to get the title.
I guess I just don’t understand the travesty of giving kids a chance. Even winning a single playoff game, especially pulling an upset, creates an experience for hundreds/thousands of people. It isn’t a trophy, it is an opportunity to win a trophy and only 7 of those 200+ schools get that. The others, get to work hard for an extra week or few, and see where they stack up against the best. As far as percentage of participants, almost literally every single other sport and level of competition opens its championship tournament to at least the same pool (CFP being the obvious exception and people whine tirelessly about how that field needs to expand). Welcome to America, we like big tournaments and in high school sports it makes particular sense because there’s no scheduling balance at all.
Yes, kids and communities rightfully so are always elated during this time of year if they're chosen for the playoffs. I just think personally that a lot of exploitation for greed and more $$$$ has reared it's ugly head in the OHSAA over the years much like in politics and corporate america . It's more like a business than ever and you sometimes wonder what leverage is used and what factors into their decision making processes. :?:
I mean, things cost money to operate. Everything that makes a little money isn't necessarily driven by greed. And even when someone stands to gain a bit financially, there can be tremendous peripheral benefits that make it worth it. I'd say a lot of people win in this case, some financially, maybe. But it sounds like your argument was never really about watered down competition, but about a bone to pick with how the OHSAA makes money. There could certainly be some bad decisions, but the experiences provided to Ohio high school athletes are pretty high quality.


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Re: OHSAA FOOTBALL PLAYOFFS ?

Post by Otto »

FANOSPORTS wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:17 am
enigmaax wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:56 am
Otto wrote: Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:51 pm The creation of D7 was a mistake. I think the system was better off with only D1-D6. Even the state championships got so bloated that they had to add a Thursday game to accomodate all the divisions. As it has been mentioned here and on other sites, it seems that the expansion was not really made to help out the small schools, but rather to take pressure off of the D1 schools. Right now there are a lot of schools who are in D2 who should really be in D1.

It's obvious how this just waters down the divisions. Teams that made the playoffs once every 10 years or had never even made the playoffs before now get in routinely. This is the equivalent of the "give every kid a trophy" mentality that plagues sports these days.
Having 7 State Champions among 600+ schools, where each one is earned by winning half the number of regular season contests and competing against reasonably similar sized schools is “giving every kid a trophy”? Sorry, that is just a ridiculous statement.
The "trophy" to most is just being 1 of the 224 teams in the playoffs when realistically speaking only about 1/3 of that total is a true contender or have a punchers chance to get the title.
Exactly. It's a participation trophy for these teams by letting them in when they didn't really earn it. Let's look at D7 as an example. FOUR teams made the playoffs at 5-5 and TWO made it at 6-4. Now, did these teams really earn their way in? I don't think so. Especially when you look and see that most of these wins came from beating just awful teams. Ten years ago, these 6 teams would not have made the playoffs, and I guarantee you none of them will win the championship this year.


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Re: OHSAA FOOTBALL PLAYOFFS ?

Post by Cats claw »

Otto wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:13 pm
FANOSPORTS wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:17 am
enigmaax wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:56 am
Having 7 State Champions among 600+ schools, where each one is earned by winning half the number of regular season contests and competing against reasonably similar sized schools is “giving every kid a trophy”? Sorry, that is just a ridiculous statement.
The "trophy" to most is just being 1 of the 224 teams in the playoffs when realistically speaking only about 1/3 of that total is a true contender or have a punchers chance to get the title.
Exactly. It's a participation trophy for these teams by letting them in when they didn't really earn it. Let's look at D7 as an example. FOUR teams made the playoffs at 5-5 and TWO made it at 6-4. Now, did these teams really earn their way in? I don't think so. Especially when you look and see that most of these wins came from beating just awful teams. Ten years ago, these 6 teams would not have made the playoffs, and I guarantee you none of them will win the championship this year.
If you don't like these first round games don't go watch them problem solved


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Re: OHSAA FOOTBALL PLAYOFFS ?

Post by Tjhtygeverve »

Pol pot wrote: Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:45 pm Misguided post, the expansion to a 7th division really did not increase revenue. What it did do was create more balance and opportunities for the largest and smallest schools.
Absolutely, SPOT ON!


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Re: OHSAA FOOTBALL PLAYOFFS ?

Post by HamPorter »

Those losers from Rocky River wouldn’t have gotten in if it were up to me and only got lucky that the money hungry state allowed them in as an 8 seed. They showed how big of a joke they are by lucking into a 10 point win tonight over a 1 seed.


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Re: OHSAA FOOTBALL PLAYOFFS ?

Post by FANOSPORTS »

HamPorter wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:17 pm Those losers from Rocky River wouldn’t have gotten in if it were up to me and only got lucky that the money hungry state allowed them in as an 8 seed. They showed how big of a joke they are by lucking into a 10 point win tonight over a 1 seed.
Much like Iowa and Purdue the last 2 years huh ? "Even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes"


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Re: OHSAA FOOTBALL PLAYOFFS ?

Post by Jokerswild »

Uh, another 7 seed(Tri Valley) goes and beats a 2 seed. And a 6 seed(Sheridan) goes and beats a 3 seed.
Boy, these expanded playoffs sure do make for some watered down football.......


enigmaax
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Re: OHSAA FOOTBALL PLAYOFFS ?

Post by enigmaax »

Otto wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:13 pm
FANOSPORTS wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:17 am
enigmaax wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:56 am
Having 7 State Champions among 600+ schools, where each one is earned by winning half the number of regular season contests and competing against reasonably similar sized schools is “giving every kid a trophy”? Sorry, that is just a ridiculous statement.
The "trophy" to most is just being 1 of the 224 teams in the playoffs when realistically speaking only about 1/3 of that total is a true contender or have a punchers chance to get the title.
Exactly. It's a participation trophy for these teams by letting them in when they didn't really earn it. Let's look at D7 as an example. FOUR teams made the playoffs at 5-5 and TWO made it at 6-4. Now, did these teams really earn their way in? I don't think so. Especially when you look and see that most of these wins came from beating just awful teams. Ten years ago, these 6 teams would not have made the playoffs, and I guarantee you none of them will win the championship this year.
Just last year, Minster went from 6-4 to state champs, winning the last three games by a combined 92-14.

Most people talk about winning it “on the field.” The less teams that make it, the less teams have a chance to win it on the field. It is funny that someone mentioned earlier how difficult it was to win a title back when only 4 teams oer class made it. No, it was more difficult to get a chance to play for it on the field because only a few teams were selected by an arbitrary math formula. Nothing about the Harbin system ensures the best team makes it; the teams whose opponents hapoen to win more games - regardless of competition - make the cut. A bigger field does open the door for both outmatched opponents AND very good teams who play a tough schedule who are incentivised to continue testing themselves against bugger/better opponents in the regular season (even with the risk of losing a few).


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Re: OHSAA FOOTBALL PLAYOFFS ?

Post by FANOSPORTS »

enigmaax wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:07 am
Otto wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:13 pm
FANOSPORTS wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:17 am

The "trophy" to most is just being 1 of the 224 teams in the playoffs when realistically speaking only about 1/3 of that total is a true contender or have a punchers chance to get the title.
Exactly. It's a participation trophy for these teams by letting them in when they didn't really earn it. Let's look at D7 as an example. FOUR teams made the playoffs at 5-5 and TWO made it at 6-4. Now, did these teams really earn their way in? I don't think so. Especially when you look and see that most of these wins came from beating just awful teams. Ten years ago, these 6 teams would not have made the playoffs, and I guarantee you none of them will win the championship this year.
Just last year, Minster went from 6-4 to state champs, winning the last three games by a combined 92-14.

Most people talk about winning it “on the field.” The less teams that make it, the less teams have a chance to win it on the field. It is funny that someone mentioned earlier how difficult it was to win a title back when only 4 teams oer class made it. No, it was more difficult to get a chance to play for it on the field because only a few teams were selected by an arbitrary math formula. Nothing about the Harbin system ensures the best team makes it; the teams whose opponents hapoen to win more games - regardless of competition - make the cut. A bigger field does open the door for both outmatched opponents AND very good teams who play a tough schedule who are incentivised to continue testing themselves against bugger/better opponents in the regular season (even with the risk of losing a few).
And I would venture to say Minster @ 7-3 is the favorite this year also. (The MAC is a completely different beast week to week in the regular season let alone the playoffs, amazing) :D


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Re: OHSAA FOOTBALL PLAYOFFS ?

Post by Railroadn »

CheeseBurger wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:12 am Hey you stats guys how many regional finals have came from 5-8 seed. This should let us know if it was worth it. I would assume it’s a bunch and proves why it needed expanded in the first place. This is why I would assume it was needed.


In 1999 ironton made it as a #8 seed with a 6-3 record and went to the state championship. They beat Cincinnati Wyoming, Cincinnati Indian hill, German town Valley View, Youngstown Mooney, and played Sandusky Perkins in the state championship.


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Re: OHSAA FOOTBALL PLAYOFFS ?

Post by Otto »

Jokerswild wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:57 pm Uh, another 7 seed(Tri Valley) goes and beats a 2 seed. And a 6 seed(Sheridan) goes and beats a 3 seed.
Boy, these expanded playoffs sure do make for some watered down football.......
Oh, you mean "state runner-up" Tri Valley who went 9-1 in the regular season? Or Sheridan who also went 9-1 (including beating 3 teams with a 7-3 record)? Boy, you are doing a poor job of portraying these teams as heavy underdogs....


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Re: OHSAA FOOTBALL PLAYOFFS ?

Post by 55buckeyes98 »

Why does every school get in the tournament in basketball and baseball then? I'd say the more teams we can let in the better. If you keep limiting the teams you let into the playoffs the regular season would become a joke, teams would not schedule anyone good outside of their conference or start scheduling more canadian and club teams... Here is an example... Newark Catholic is D6 and ended the season around 3-7 I think, but if you put them in the playoffs after the schedule they played I bet they could win a game or two in the 8 game format. Do they not deserve a shot because they play a pretty tough schedule? Does only your record tell your story? I'm surprised any football fanatic would say less games to watch is better...


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Re: OHSAA FOOTBALL PLAYOFFS ?

Post by Jokerswild »

Otto wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:30 pm
Jokerswild wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:57 pm Uh, another 7 seed(Tri Valley) goes and beats a 2 seed. And a 6 seed(Sheridan) goes and beats a 3 seed.
Boy, these expanded playoffs sure do make for some watered down football.......
Oh, you mean "state runner-up" Tri Valley who went 9-1 in the regular season? Or Sheridan who also went 9-1 (including beating 3 teams with a 7-3 record)? Boy, you are doing a poor job of portraying these teams as heavy underdogs....
Just stating a fact of lower seeds winning. Yes there is no doubt there are undeserving teams making it in with the playoffs being expanded but obviously there are good teams that are left out when 4 teams made it.


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Re: OHSAA FOOTBALL PLAYOFFS ?

Post by FANOSPORTS »

:( After week #1 only 3 teams are left in SEO East of Rt. 23 and below and not bordering the I-70 and I-71 coorridors (below Bellaire / Shadyside off of I-70 and/or the Marietta area off I-77). Wheelersburg, Trimble and Paint Valley who's just a bit west of Chillicothe. Wheelersburg will carry the flag with the best chance from here on out, Trimble should win this week & Paint Valley will probably go down this week.
Last edited by FANOSPORTS on Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: OHSAA FOOTBALL PLAYOFFS ?

Post by Superman »

FANOSPORTS wrote: Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:11 pm :( After week #1 only 3 teams are left in SEO East of Rt. 23 and below and not bordering the I-70 and I-71 coorridors (below Bellaire / Shadyside off of I-70 and/or the Marietta area off I-71). Wheelersburg, Trimble and Paint Valley who's just a bit west of Chillicothe. Wheelersburg will carry the flag with the best chance from here on out, Trimble should win this week & Paint Valley will probably go down this week.
Waterford?


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Re: OHSAA FOOTBALL PLAYOFFS ?

Post by FANOSPORTS »

Superman wrote: Sun Nov 04, 2018 2:04 pm
FANOSPORTS wrote: Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:11 pm :( After week #1 only 3 teams are left in SEO East of Rt. 23 and below and not bordering the I-70 and I-71 coorridors (below Bellaire / Shadyside off of I-70 and/or the Marietta area off I-71). Wheelersburg, Trimble and Paint Valley who's just a bit west of Chillicothe. Wheelersburg will carry the flag with the best chance from here on out, Trimble should win this week & Paint Valley will probably go down this week.
Waterford?
I'm considering Waterford and Fort Frye in the I-71 Marietta corridor in the North part of the SEO region since they would be technically considered suburbs around Marietta IMO.


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Re: OHSAA FOOTBALL PLAYOFFS ?

Post by Orange and Brown »

FANOSPORTS wrote: Sun Nov 04, 2018 2:08 pm
Superman wrote: Sun Nov 04, 2018 2:04 pm
FANOSPORTS wrote: Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:11 pm :( After week #1 only 3 teams are left in SEO East of Rt. 23 and below and not bordering the I-70 and I-71 coorridors (below Bellaire / Shadyside off of I-70 and/or the Marietta area off I-71). Wheelersburg, Trimble and Paint Valley who's just a bit west of Chillicothe. Wheelersburg will carry the flag with the best chance from here on out, Trimble should win this week & Paint Valley will probably go down this week.
Waterford?
I'm considering Waterford and Fort Frye in the I-71 Marietta corridor in the North part of the SEO region since they would be technically considered suburbs around Marietta IMO.
So you are just making up your own list of Southeastern Ohio teams?


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Re: OHSAA FOOTBALL PLAYOFFS ?

Post by FANOSPORTS »

Orange and Brown wrote: Sun Nov 04, 2018 2:25 pm
FANOSPORTS wrote: Sun Nov 04, 2018 2:08 pm
Superman wrote: Sun Nov 04, 2018 2:04 pm

Waterford?
I'm considering Waterford and Fort Frye in the I-71 Marietta corridor in the North part of the SEO region since they would be technically considered suburbs around Marietta IMO.
So you are just making up your own list of Southeastern Ohio teams?
Nope, just figuring communities and schools that aren't in or around metropolitan areas with over 100,000 people (Parkersburg/Marietta, Columbus/Newark, Wheeling/Moundsville/St. Clairsville areas) that don't border the two Interstates of I-70 and I-71 in the North part of the region, that's all. Just from a geographic point of view for the region as a whole, nothing more and nothing less. ;)


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