TVC Expansion

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Re: TVC Expansion

Post by Cats claw » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:14 pm

I have never heard of anyone having trouble finding 2 non league games most have a rivalry game for 1 of them anyways



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Re: TVC Expansion

Post by Dundas » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:14 pm

I’ve given specific points as to why it would be a benefit to go to an even numbered division format. What are the reasons against it, other than “I don’t want change”?

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Re: TVC Expansion

Post by Dundas » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:17 pm

Cats claw wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:14 pm
I have never heard of anyone having trouble finding 2 non league games most have a rivalry game for 1 of them anyways
VC has had a difficult time filling week 7. Ny has had a difficult time filling non conference weeks. Every conference in SEO will be even numbered within 2 years and those belpre/valley, VC/Minford, Alex/Warren etc, will not be possible anymore. It’s about to get even more difficult if the divisions stay at an odd number. Especially for the teams that have a late (week 5-10) non conference game.

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Re: TVC Expansion

Post by Dundas » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:20 pm

Dundas wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:17 pm
Cats claw wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:14 pm
I have never heard of anyone having trouble finding 2 non league games most have a rivalry game for 1 of them anyways
VC has had a difficult time filling week 7. Ny has had a difficult time filling non conference weeks. Every conference in SEO will be even numbered within 2 years and those belpre/valley, VC/Minford, Alex/Warren etc, will not be possible anymore. It’s about to get even more difficult if the divisions stay at an odd number. Especially for the teams that have a late (week 5-10) non conference game.
Again, I give specific details and information as to why it will be in our best interest to move to even divisions. Does the Hocking not want Fort Frye? If that’s the case, then add FF to the Ohio so at least one conference doesn’t have the scheduling issue and let the Hocking travel to Cincinnati, Columbus or only schedule 9 games. I for one, do not want that for my school.

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Re: TVC Expansion

Post by Cats claw » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:30 pm

Dundas wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:20 pm
Dundas wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:17 pm
Cats claw wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:14 pm
I have never heard of anyone having trouble finding 2 non league games most have a rivalry game for 1 of them anyways
VC has had a difficult time filling week 7. Ny has had a difficult time filling non conference weeks. Every conference in SEO will be even numbered within 2 years and those belpre/valley, VC/Minford, Alex/Warren etc, will not be possible anymore. It’s about to get even more difficult if the divisions stay at an odd number. Especially for the teams that have a late (week 5-10) non conference game.
Again, I give specific details and information as to why it will be in our best interest to move to even divisions. Does the Hocking not want Fort Frye? If that’s the case, then add FF to the Ohio so at least one conference doesn’t have the scheduling issue and let the Hocking travel to Cincinnati, Columbus or only schedule 9 games. I for one, do not want that for my school.
Sounds like more of the Ohio division problem but I see your point

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Re: TVC Expansion

Post by greygoose » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:34 pm

93Bulldog wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:01 am
Ok, that's it!

PETA is really pissed. They are stepping in. It's one thing to beat a dead horse, but to abuse its corpse is just totally uncalled for.

:mrgreen:
Exactly what I thought when I seen the topic. It's one thing to talk about it every year but when you start posting about it 2-3 times a season it's a bit ridiculous.

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Re: TVC Expansion

Post by NY BUCK » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:35 pm

Just don’t think I can get behind NY being in the middle division if it went to three.

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Re: TVC Expansion

Post by fortdawg » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:36 pm

There should be a clause put in there that whoever votes for this should have to ride the bus from SG to Frontier and from Frontier to SG for every Winter and Spring sport contest.
The trip to and from Miller to Frontier wouldn't be a day at the beach either.
Wouldn't it make more sense to see which teams play each other before inviting schools in?
How many teams from the Hocking played Frontier in anything this year?
Fort Frye played Belpre and Waterford---did they play anyone else in anything?
We saw how much Federal wanted to play them.
Why fix something that isn't broke?

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Re: TVC Expansion

Post by Dundas » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:43 pm

fortdawg wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:36 pm
There should be a clause put in there that whoever votes for this should have to ride the bus from SG to Frontier and from Frontier to SG for every Winter and Spring sport contest.
The trip to and from Miller to Frontier wouldn't be a day at the beach either.
Wouldn't it make more sense to see which teams play each other before inviting schools in?
How many teams from the Hocking played Frontier in anything this year?
Fort Frye played Belpre and Waterford---did they play anyone else in anything?
We saw how much Federal wanted to play them.
Why fix something that isn't broke?
Since some people haven’t read the original post, here it is. Again.

Ohio

Athens 334 D3
VC 252 D4
Meigs 213 D4
Alex 210 D5
River Valley 203 D5
Wellston 176 D5
Oak Hill 172 D5
NY 147 D6

Hocking

Fort Frye 148 D6
Belpre 125 D6
Fed Hock 119 D6
Trimble 105 D7
Eastern 102 D7
Wahama 91 D7
Southern 91D7
S Gallia 91 D7
Miller 82 D7
Waterford 78 D7


8 team Ohio. First 4 games are non conference and last 6 conference.

10 team hocking. First week non conference. Last 9 conference.

Would that make everyone happy? Playoff generating machines for both divisions. Should get 2-3 in each year from each division. Sometimes 4 in the Hocking.

Again, this will end the non conference weeks that teams struggle to fill. It’s only a matter of time before a team or two won’t be able to find a week 5-10 matchup with all of SEO conferences moving to even numbers starting next year with the soc and in 2020 with the mvl and ecol. Games will be hard to come by after 2020. I think this would be a great conference. Even though it’s not my first choice of formats.

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Re: TVC Expansion

Post by enigmaax » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:45 pm

Dundas wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:14 pm
I’ve given specific points as to why it would be a benefit to go to an even numbered division format. What are the reasons against it, other than “I don’t want change”?
This one time, yes, you kept it simple and provided one singular reason that is fine. For all I know, they might consider evening things out, though I don’t think it is as compelling of a reason as you make it out to be and the two schools you named may or may not be the best fit.

By and large, your proposals and the majority of posts on this topic regarding expansion is “change for the sake of change,” which is often much worse than resisting change. See the SEOAL for how to kill a league by changing for no good reason.

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Re: TVC Expansion

Post by Dundas » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:48 pm

greygoose wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:34 pm
93Bulldog wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:01 am
Ok, that's it!

PETA is really pissed. They are stepping in. It's one thing to beat a dead horse, but to abuse its corpse is just totally uncalled for.

:mrgreen:
Exactly what I thought when I seen the topic. It's one thing to talk about it every year but when you start posting about it 2-3 times a season it's a bit ridiculous.
Yet you still read it and post on the thread. Lol

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Re: TVC Expansion

Post by Dundas » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:52 pm

enigmaax wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:45 pm
Dundas wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:14 pm
I’ve given specific points as to why it would be a benefit to go to an even numbered division format. What are the reasons against it, other than “I don’t want change”?
This one time, yes, you kept it simple and provided one singular reason that is fine. For all I know, they might consider evening things out, though I don’t think it is as compelling of a reason as you make it out to be and the two schools you named may or may not be the best fit.

By and large, your proposals and the majority of posts on this topic regarding expansion is “change for the sake of change,” which is often much worse than resisting change. See the SEOAL for how to kill a league by changing for no good reason.
That’s the thing, I believe the main reason is a very valid one. I guess in 4 years when half of the TVC schools travel 100+ miles to fill a non conference week late in the season, or are forced with a 9 game schedule, then we will make a change? Sometimes it’s good to be proactive. The Seoal expanded beyond its borders. That’s why it collapsed. If some TVC schools begin to find it hard to fill a 10 game schedule, the conference is big enough for 5 or 6 teams to break away. They you’re really screwed. Let’s get to an even number and be done with it. Move belpre back up to the Ohio and cal it a day if no one wants any new schools to join. Problem solved.

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Re: TVC Expansion

Post by noreply66 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:03 pm

koondoger wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:48 pm
Raider6309 wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:08 pm
Well Jackson and Gallia are in pretty good leagues now. Fort Frye and Oak Hill will join the TVC. Warren needs to join the TVC. They have the votes to get in
Don't forget Logan. I think they have the votes to get in this time. :mrgreen:
SEO has shown they do not want Logan and with them realizing it they will never join the TVC. Only way Logan will play a better than half SEO schedule is if a new conference is developed with in the area of six teams that would be near the largest or do well year in and year out.

I'm hoping for more talks and better results on the conference they have been talking about.
GO LOGAN..The anti-Christ is among us

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Re: TVC Expansion

Post by one Oak » Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:33 pm

As an Oak Hill fan, I think the TVC Ohio is a better fit than the SOC 2. Wheelersburg dominates the SOC 2 in football and is usually at or near the top in every sport, both boys and girls. But, it isn't just for competitive reasons for me. I don't think we have a real rival in the SOC.

I'll go to the games no matter which league we are in, but I would rather see us playing TVC Ohio teams. Nelsonville York is on the schedule for next year and Wellston will be the season opener in 2020. This year we are playing Meigs, Alexander, Wellston and River Valley in basketball.

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Re: TVC Expansion

Post by GoBucks1047 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:07 pm

Dundas wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:43 pm
fortdawg wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:36 pm
There should be a clause put in there that whoever votes for this should have to ride the bus from SG to Frontier and from Frontier to SG for every Winter and Spring sport contest.
The trip to and from Miller to Frontier wouldn't be a day at the beach either.
Wouldn't it make more sense to see which teams play each other before inviting schools in?
How many teams from the Hocking played Frontier in anything this year?
Fort Frye played Belpre and Waterford---did they play anyone else in anything?
We saw how much Federal wanted to play them.
Why fix something that isn't broke?
Since some people haven’t read the original post, here it is. Again.

Ohio

Athens 334 D3
VC 252 D4
Meigs 213 D4
Alex 210 D5
River Valley 203 D5
Wellston 176 D5
Oak Hill 172 D5
NY 147 D6

Hocking

Fort Frye 148 D6
Belpre 125 D6
Fed Hock 119 D6
Trimble 105 D7
Eastern 102 D7
Wahama 91 D7
Southern 91D7
S Gallia 91 D7
Miller 82 D7
Waterford 78 D7


8 team Ohio. First 4 games are non conference and last 6 conference.

10 team hocking. First week non conference. Last 9 conference.

Would that make everyone happy? Playoff generating machines for both divisions. Should get 2-3 in each year from each division. Sometimes 4 in the Hocking.

Again, this will end the non conference weeks that teams struggle to fill. It’s only a matter of time before a team or two won’t be able to find a week 5-10 matchup with all of SEO conferences moving to even numbers starting next year with the soc and in 2020 with the mvl and ecol. Games will be hard to come by after 2020. I think this would be a great conference. Even though it’s not my first choice of formats.
Another reason to add Fort Frye to the Hocking can be to establish divisions in all sports except football to reduce travel. The 16 game conference schedule could remain as you would play the teams in your division twice, and out of division, 3 teams twice and 2 once. If travel is a bigger issue, then there could be a reduction in conference games to 14 games. Also, should Fort Frye join the Southeast District non-football, Fort Frye and Belpre would be 2 teams paired together in a sectional when in D3.

* = Protected Rivalry (always play twice)
Fort Frye
Belpre
Trimble*
Miller
Waterford

Fed Hock*
Eastern
Wahama
Southern
S Gallia

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Re: TVC Expansion

Post by greygoose » Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:08 pm

Dundas wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:48 pm
greygoose wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:34 pm
93Bulldog wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:01 am
Ok, that's it!

PETA is really pissed. They are stepping in. It's one thing to beat a dead horse, but to abuse its corpse is just totally uncalled for.

:mrgreen:
Exactly what I thought when I seen the topic. It's one thing to talk about it every year but when you start posting about it 2-3 times a season it's a bit ridiculous.
Yet you still read it and post on the thread. Lol
Think you're very confused, the way topic was written I thought there was an expansion plan in place. Nope just same person, typing the same thing on the same subject. I get it, heck I even agree with you on certain areas, but dang man you need to write to every schools AD within the TVC. That's the only way you might see change or at least get yourself an answer I mean you keep typing on the same subject like ppl on here can do something for you or even care about the subject in the manner in which you do.

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Re: TVC Expansion

Post by Dundas » Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:48 pm

greygoose wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:08 pm
Dundas wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:48 pm
greygoose wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:34 pm


Exactly what I thought when I seen the topic. It's one thing to talk about it every year but when you start posting about it 2-3 times a season it's a bit ridiculous.
Yet you still read it and post on the thread. Lol
Think you're very confused, the way topic was written I thought there was an expansion plan in place. Nope just same person, typing the same thing on the same subject. I get it, heck I even agree with you on certain areas, but dang man you need to write to every schools AD within the TVC. That's the only way you might see change or at least get yourself an answer I mean you keep typing on the same subject like ppl on here can do something for you or even care about the subject in the manner in which you do.
And again, you reply. Lol I’m discussing the topic because it is a topic. Something is going to happen and I want to get feedback on what everyone thinks. I suppose I’ll refrain from posting about anything repetitive anymore because apparently it’s painful for people like you to read. Sorry to waste your time. Even though it’s voluntarily given to such topics. Speculation and rumor is part of what makes this site exciting to read. I guess that’s just my opinion. The minority. Anyway, I won’t post about it anymore.

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Re: TVC Expansion

Post by ShoeHorn » Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:32 am

greygoose wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:34 pm
93Bulldog wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:01 am
Ok, that's it!

PETA is really pissed. They are stepping in. It's one thing to beat a dead horse, but to abuse its corpse is just totally uncalled for.

:mrgreen:
Exactly what I thought when I seen the topic. It's one thing to talk about it every year but when you start posting about it 2-3 times a season it's a bit ridiculous.
+1

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Re: TVC Expansion

Post by mattash » Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:35 am

Dundas wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:43 pm
fortdawg wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:36 pm
There should be a clause put in there that whoever votes for this should have to ride the bus from SG to Frontier and from Frontier to SG for every Winter and Spring sport contest.
The trip to and from Miller to Frontier wouldn't be a day at the beach either.
Wouldn't it make more sense to see which teams play each other before inviting schools in?
How many teams from the Hocking played Frontier in anything this year?
Fort Frye played Belpre and Waterford---did they play anyone else in anything?
We saw how much Federal wanted to play them.
Why fix something that isn't broke?
Since some people haven’t read the original post, here it is. Again.

Ohio

Athens 334 D3
VC 252 D4
Meigs 213 D4
Alex 210 D5
River Valley 203 D5
Wellston 176 D5
Oak Hill 172 D5
NY 147 D6

Hocking

Fort Frye 148 D6
Belpre 125 D6
Fed Hock 119 D6
Trimble 105 D7
Eastern 102 D7
Wahama 91 D7
Southern 91D7
S Gallia 91 D7
Miller 82 D7
Waterford 78 D7


8 team Ohio. First 4 games are non conference and last 6 conference.

10 team hocking. First week non conference. Last 9 conference.

Would that make everyone happy? Playoff generating machines for both divisions. Should get 2-3 in each year from each division. Sometimes 4 in the Hocking.

Again, this will end the non conference weeks that teams struggle to fill. It’s only a matter of time before a team or two won’t be able to find a week 5-10 matchup with all of SEO conferences moving to even numbers starting next year with the soc and in 2020 with the mvl and ecol. Games will be hard to come by after 2020. I think this would be a great conference. Even though it’s not my first choice of formats.
my bad man. kind of messed it up a little

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Re: TVC Expansion

Post by fortdawg » Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:44 am

Dundas I was commenting on another poster's idea but I can respond to yours.
Who plays Fort Frye and Oak Hill now?
That's the key to getting in.
People were playing Wahama and SG in all sports before they were accepted.
I don't see that with Fort and Oak Hill.
Let us stick with the Hocking for a minute and you tell me who besides Belpre and Waterford plays Fort in football?
Federal doesn't count.
Waterford plays them in everything---but since the two schools are close enough they can see each other that isn't surprising.
I don't follow Belpre basketball close enough to know if they play them home and away or at all----but I don't know of another school that plays them.
Miller could be in Beverly (their buses go through it to get to Waterford) in an hour and in the 23 plus years I've been up there they haven't played Fort in anything.
The drive to Beverly wouldn't be bad for Federal, Eastern, Southern, or Wahama and none of them play Fort in much of anything.
If you want to kill a league start forcing coaches to play teams they don't anything to do with.
They start to complain and suddenly the league breaks up. See the SEOAL if you doubt me.
Let me give you this example, let's take Miller football for the last 4 years: 0-4 against Trimble; 1-3 against Waterford: 2-2 against Belpre, Wahama, SG, and Southern, and we fared pretty well against the rest of the league.
Does anybody believe we or any of the other teams in the league would have beaten Fort Frye over that time period besides Trimble?
So unless your last name is Faires, you are basically adding a loss to your schedule---do you really think people are lining up to do that?

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Re: TVC Expansion

Post by Teufelhunden » Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:05 am

fortdawg wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:44 am
Dundas I was commenting on another poster's idea but I can respond to yours.
Who plays Fort Frye and Oak Hill now?
That's the key to getting in.
People were playing Wahama and SG in all sports before they were accepted.
I don't see that with Fort and Oak Hill.
Let us stick with the Hocking for a minute and you tell me who besides Belpre and Waterford plays Fort in football?
Federal doesn't count.
Waterford plays them in everything---but since the two schools are close enough they can see each other that isn't surprising.
I don't follow Belpre basketball close enough to know if they play them home and away or at all----but I don't know of another school that plays them.
Miller could be in Beverly (their buses go through it to get to Waterford) in an hour and in the 23 plus years I've been up there they haven't played Fort in anything.
The drive to Beverly wouldn't be bad for Federal, Eastern, Southern, or Wahama and none of them play Fort in much of anything.
If you want to kill a league start forcing coaches to play teams they don't anything to do with.
They start to complain and suddenly the league breaks up. See the SEOAL if you doubt me.
Let me give you this example, let's take Miller football for the last 4 years: 0-4 against Trimble; 1-3 against Waterford: 2-2 against Belpre, Wahama, SG, and Southern, and we fared pretty well against the rest of the league.
Does anybody believe we or any of the other teams in the league would have beaten Fort Frye over that time period besides Trimble?
So unless your last name is Faires, you are basically adding a loss to your schedule---do you really think people are lining up to do that?
Good points Fortdawg. But I would just once like to see the faces on those young Cadets as they step off the bus down in Crown City after the 3 hour trip and get a look at the grinning, tobacco spitting gents wearing the stripes. :D

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Re: TVC Expansion

Post by one Oak » Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:48 am

I posted above that Oak Hill is playing Nelsonville York in 2019 and Wellston in 2020. In basketball, we are playing four TVC Ohio teams this year.

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Re: TVC Expansion

Post by Older bird » Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:21 pm

The problem with FF is they too small for Ohio and too good for Hocking. Athens is trying to beef up their sched and I think will try even more n next few years. If Vinton can keep their turnaround they don’t want a smaller school either. NY put them on non conference schedule so why add them to league. Geography they would fit Hocking (H2O ford already n) but just not going to happen

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Re: TVC Expansion

Post by Older bird » Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:22 pm

Older bird wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:21 pm
The problem with FF is they too small for Ohio and too good for Hocking. Athens is trying to beef up their sched and I think will try even more n next few years. If Vinton can keep their turnaround they don’t want a smaller school either. NY put them on non conference schedule so why add them to league. Geography they would fit Hocking (H2O ford already n) but just not going to happen
And in my opinion River Valley needs to leave Ohio for everyone benefit

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Re: TVC Expansion

Post by bullfrog93 » Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:34 pm

Older bird wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:22 pm
Older bird wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:21 pm
The problem with FF is they too small for Ohio and too good for Hocking. Athens is trying to beef up their sched and I think will try even more n next few years. If Vinton can keep their turnaround they don’t want a smaller school either. NY put them on non conference schedule so why add them to league. Geography they would fit Hocking (H2O ford already n) but just not going to happen
And in my opinion River Valley needs to leave Ohio for everyone benefit
Yes, please! And the sooner the better. Killing playoff points.

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