MVL Football

[Play60Football]

…because this league was so deeply stuck in the mud for the longest time in its thinking of “we need to also consider the interests of Tri-Valley and Sheridan” at the level that TV & the Generals were somehow in the same boat as Crooksville, West M, New Lex and Morgan. I have nothing against TV and Sheridan, but their thinking before the MVL split into two that “it would hurt the fabric of the MVL if we left, or if we added Zanesville” and “some of these schools rely on us to make their athletics financially solvent” meant refusing to read the writing on the wall in the process.

The exits for Sheridan are basically closed at this point. They weren’t candidates for either of the two times when the LCL extensively studied and discussed expansion, they never applied to the MSL and both leagues are in dead-end situations now on ability to expand. TV’s prospect to move off the MVL has always required them to be in a package with Newark and Zanesville in the LCL, which died the first go-around because another school ruined the deal in the 11th hour and didn’t get revisited last time because they didn’t apply.

I think that the dynamics of the league have changed so drastically over the last few years really, I believe your point of being stuck in the mud is on point. There was a time when teams were on the same level and could compete with each other. Over time these communities and therefore kids have shifted and they don't look like they did 10 or so years ago. And the idea of "cycle of kids" is not really applicable to certain schools.

I believe issues are arising because, lets say smallest and biggest schools, Crooksville should ask WHY do I have to play TV in BBK, GBK, VB, BB, SB. TV would respond "Because it gives each of us one less game to look for, and it keeps the integrity of the league!"
So if Crooksville is willing to go look for an opponent they can compete with, but TV says it should be mandatory AND the MVL in turns makes it mandatory who is the league looking out for?

As we have seen most schools will schedule each other outside of the mandatory tags but the root of an issue (If there is actually one) is the MANDATORY part. Is the MVL looking at the benefits of the league as a whole..... AGAIN Crooksville, West, Coshocton and any other small schools agreed to this so it's really on them haha.... That's just how it appears to me and from what i've been told an issue with some schools.

[redskinwitness]

Expand by four schools. Add Zanesville, Cambridge, Warren and Fort Frye.

"Big" Side: TV, Sheridan, Zanesville, Cambridge, JG, Warren, Philo and Maysville.

"Small" Side: NL, Crooksville, Fort, WM, Meadowbrook, Coshocton, River View, Morgan

Don't make crossovers mandatory, that means you have seven built in football games, do "championships" day in sports like hoops, bat/ball sports, wrestling, volleyball, etc where first place teams play, second place, and so on. Keep your league meets for running sports and everyone is happy. Fort and Warren play in a league that has four teams currently, MVL has to be more stable. Or just leave it alone, it is the longest running league in Ohio if I'm not mistaken.

[formerfcfan]

…because this league was so deeply stuck in the mud for the longest time in its thinking of “we need to also consider the interests of Tri-Valley and Sheridan” at the level that TV & the Generals were somehow in the same boat as Crooksville, West M, New Lex and Morgan. I have nothing against TV and Sheridan, but their thinking before the MVL split into two that “it would hurt the fabric of the MVL if we left, or if we added Zanesville” and “some of these schools rely on us to make their athletics financially solvent” meant refusing to read the writing on the wall in the process.

The exits for Sheridan are basically closed at this point. They weren’t candidates for either of the two times when the LCL extensively studied and discussed expansion, they never applied to the MSL and both leagues are in dead-end situations now on ability to expand. TV’s prospect to move off the MVL has always required them to be in a package with Newark and Zanesville in the LCL, which died the first go-around because another school ruined the deal in the 11th hour and didn’t get revisited last time because they didn’t apply.

I think that the dynamics of the league have changed so drastically over the last few years really, I believe your point of being stuck in the mud is on point. There was a time when teams were on the same level and could compete with each other. Over time these communities and therefore kids have shifted and they don't look like they did 10 or so years ago. And the idea of "cycle of kids" is not really applicable to certain schools.

Yep. School size matters, so do socioeconomics. The only common denominator between Sheridan and Crooksville is both are in Perry County, and the only thing New Lex has in common with Sheridan that Big C doesn’t is Route 13 runs through both schools.

And I think Sheridan and New Lex is a great rivalry. But rivalry greatness can’t overcome the fact one school has had far greater ability to win league titles in any and all sports than the other, while the other would fight to stay out of the cellar, and it’s been that way for so dang long.

I believe issues are arising because, lets say smallest and biggest schools, Crooksville should ask WHY do I have to play TV in BBK, GBK, VB, BB, SB. TV would respond "Because it gives each of us one less game to look for, and it keeps the integrity of the league!"
So if Crooksville is willing to go look for an opponent they can compete with, but TV says it should be mandatory AND the MVL in turns makes it mandatory who is the league looking out for?

I seem to recall this being the sentiment when West M football had that streak of 0-10’s and a 30 game MVL losing streak (or however many games they lost) not that long ago. And that also had the thinking of “well WM was like that in the 80’s and 90’s but then they got good and could beat Sheridan & TV. It’s a cycle.” Just sports-oblivious administration.

As we have seen most schools will schedule each other outside of the mandatory tags but the root of an issue (If there is actually one) is the MANDATORY part. Is the MVL looking at the benefits of the league as a whole..... AGAIN Crooksville, West, Coshocton and any other small schools agreed to this so it's really on them haha.... That's just how it appears to me and from what i've been told an issue with some schools.

Mandatory is always a bad policy with most multi-divisional leagues, since the “two divisional flights = one league umbrella” usually exists for a reason. The only one that has it right is the OCC, because they are constantly adapting with alignments (thus more-responsive to competition gaps) to meet the interests and needs of their schools.

I guess I’m of the opinion that adding Zanesville, Cambridge and Rosecrans would’ve been the simplest fix, that would’ve met the intents of the entire MVL better moving forward, instead of crapping up the geographic footprint (and roster of school sizes) by having Coshocton, Meadowbrook and River View. Obviously that never happened because, somehow, two of those schools aren’t “good fits” (uh huh, they aren’t great fits when you lose to them in major sports I agree) and the third was an either/or for the package to tie out the current MVL.

[MVLfan]

A lot of great stuff in that post fcfan!
First and foremost, I think you hit the nail on the head with the Perry County schools. The dynamics of each school are vastly different. And I would put the house and the farm on that if you asked Culver and Board if they’d still play without it being mandatory, both would look at you like you’re crazy. Of course they would. I imagine the gate is the biggest for both schools, except TV for Sheridan, MAYBE. Crooksville honestly could make the argument that they shouldn’t play New Lex, except for the same argument, it’s probably their best gate.
The mandatory argument is an easy one to dissect. Is it beneficial to both or just one side? The small beating a big instances, across all sports, is probably minimal at best. As good as West M was this year, Brownrigg would tell you they aren’t in the same league as those top 2 schools. I do think they would have competed well with JG this year though. But that’s on a team full of seniors. They will drop off next year a bit.

[Softball5]

Formerfcfan, your thoughts on the issue are spot on regarding the differences between schools especially when looking at socioeconomic issues. The integrity of the league excuse needs to end as well as scheduling and travel for reasons not to make changes within the league. If it means that some schools choose to leave to do what’s best for their kids and communities then so be it. I’m willing to bet that most parents would be willing to travel further if it meant that their kids and teams would be more competitive and have more opportunities.

[teach1coach2]

It's 2018. 9 schools looking out for each other trying to do what is best for the league as a whole.

Let's take the 9 team MVL and expand by bringing in 3 schools and going to divisions. More opportunities for schools to win titles. Yes there will be a little more travel but I'm sure parents will be OK with it to play more games against similar size schools. Playing each other twice as a 9 team league in most sports is 16 games, so with 6 team divisions we can play each division team twice for 10 games and once against each team from the other division and still have 16 games.

So for instance, New Lex will go from 2 Tri-Valley, 2 Sheridan, 2 John Glenn, 2 Philo, 2 Maysville, 2 Morgan, 2 West Muskingum 2 Crooksville to
1 Tri-Valley, 1 Sheridan, 1 John Glenn, 1 Philo, 1 Maysville, 2 Morgan, 2 West Muskingum, 2 Crooksville, 2 Meadowbrook, 2 Coshocton, 1 River View.
I don't think anyone could deny that is better for a school their size.

And Sheridan could go from 2 Tri-Valley, 2 John Glenn, 2 Philo, 2 Maysville, 2 Morgan, 2 New Lex, 2 West Muskingum 2 Crooksville to
2 Tri-Valley, 2 John Glenn, 2 Philo, 2 Maysville, 2 River View, 1 Morgan, 1 West Muskingum, 1 New Lex, 1 Crooksville, 1 Meadowbrook, 1 Coshocton.
About the same competition wise, but see a few more opponents.

So that takes care of volleyball, boys/girls basketball, baseball/softball. I know I'm skipping a few sports, but let's get to football.

So we currently have 8 league games. Play each team once.
Since we are looking at 12 teams and divisions, EVERYONE agrees we don't want anyone to be looking for 5 non-league games especially tough to find games weeks 4 and 5. So we will do 5 games in the division and 3 cross division and still play 8 in the league. Oh, a few teams would really like to play another non-league. OK, so we will do 2 mandatory cross division games. All 9 schools say yes. And the 3 coming in are given the league scheduling parameters and all accept it as a condition to get in the league. So 2 mandatory cross overs based on size mostly with rivalry games kept in tact if at all possible. And away we go.

So New Lex goes from league games vs Tri-Valley, Sheridan, John Glenn, Philo, Maysville, Morgan, West Muskingum, and Crooksville to
league games against Tri-Valley, Sheridan, Morgan, West Muskingum, Crooksville, Meadowbrook, and Coshocton. Historically that is better for them, but Meadowbrook and then West M had some solid teams and Coshocton was a tough game. New Lex choose to play John Glenn and Maysville on non-league weeks.

So it looks like the divisions are going to be great for the small schools and not much of a change for the big schools.

Fast forward to 2024. 12 schools and bleep bleep bleep bleep .... better that I don't finish the sentence.
Not all 12 schools have people still around who were there in 2018 when things were set for the league.
The majority of MVL schools are good with the way things are.

The one thing I agree with on some of the earlier posts:
If it means that some schools choose to leave to do what’s best for their kids and communities then so be it.

Please no one get butt hurt. Just the other perspective.
--------------------------------

I know the OHSAA numbers were posted in this thread. Go to ODE and look at the enrollment of the grades coming.

The next time divisions are set in a few years, there are really only a couple teams on the line.

Small: Crooksville, West M, Coshocton, River View, Meadowbrook
Big: Tri-Valley, Sheridan, John Glenn, Philo, Maysville

On the line: New Lex and Morgan. I would guess New Lex in big and Morgan in small.

[formerfcfan]

Why this league added the three out of the ECOL that they did, knowing it’d be an enrollment-based setup with three or four schools that’d be straddling the line, instead of getting Zanesville in order to have a permanent large member aboard — and from there deciding if you’re going to include the two Coshocton County or the two Guernsey County schools to round out to 12 — will always be a mystery.

At least if you had the two schools off 70, you’d have one school that would reduce the “move up” chances for schools like Morgan out of the small and the other would’ve been a fixture the majority of the time to be in the small.

[MVLfan]

It's 2018. 9 schools looking out for each other trying to do what is best for the league as a whole.

Let's take the 9 team MVL and expand by bringing in 3 schools and going to divisions. More opportunities for schools to win titles. Yes there will be a little more travel but I'm sure parents will be OK with it to play more games against similar size schools. Playing each other twice as a 9 team league in most sports is 16 games, so with 6 team divisions we can play each division team twice for 10 games and once against each team from the other division and still have 16 games.

So for instance, New Lex will go from 2 Tri-Valley, 2 Sheridan, 2 John Glenn, 2 Philo, 2 Maysville, 2 Morgan, 2 West Muskingum 2 Crooksville to
1 Tri-Valley, 1 Sheridan, 1 John Glenn, 1 Philo, 1 Maysville, 2 Morgan, 2 West Muskingum, 2 Crooksville, 2 Meadowbrook, 2 Coshocton, 1 River View.
I don't think anyone could deny that is better for a school their size.

And Sheridan could go from 2 Tri-Valley, 2 John Glenn, 2 Philo, 2 Maysville, 2 Morgan, 2 New Lex, 2 West Muskingum 2 Crooksville to
2 Tri-Valley, 2 John Glenn, 2 Philo, 2 Maysville, 2 River View, 1 Morgan, 1 West Muskingum, 1 New Lex, 1 Crooksville, 1 Meadowbrook, 1 Coshocton.
About the same competition wise, but see a few more opponents.

So that takes care of volleyball, boys/girls basketball, baseball/softball. I know I'm skipping a few sports, but let's get to football.

So we currently have 8 league games. Play each team once.
Since we are looking at 12 teams and divisions, EVERYONE agrees we don't want anyone to be looking for 5 non-league games especially tough to find games weeks 4 and 5. So we will do 5 games in the division and 3 cross division and still play 8 in the league. Oh, a few teams would really like to play another non-league. OK, so we will do 2 mandatory cross division games. All 9 schools say yes. And the 3 coming in are given the league scheduling parameters and all accept it as a condition to get in the league. So 2 mandatory cross overs based on size mostly with rivalry games kept in tact if at all possible. And away we go.

So New Lex goes from league games vs Tri-Valley, Sheridan, John Glenn, Philo, Maysville, Morgan, West Muskingum, and Crooksville to
league games against Tri-Valley, Sheridan, Morgan, West Muskingum, Crooksville, Meadowbrook, and Coshocton. Historically that is better for them, but Meadowbrook and then West M had some solid teams and Coshocton was a tough game. New Lex choose to play John Glenn and Maysville on non-league weeks.

So it looks like the divisions are going to be great for the small schools and not much of a change for the big schools.

Fast forward to 2024. 12 schools and bleep bleep bleep bleep .... better that I don't finish the sentence.
Not all 12 schools have people still around who were there in 2018 when things were set for the league.
The majority of MVL schools are good with the way things are.

The one thing I agree with on some of the earlier posts:
If it means that some schools choose to leave to do what’s best for their kids and communities then so be it.

Please no one get butt hurt. Just the other perspective.
--------------------------------

I know the OHSAA numbers were posted in this thread. Go to ODE and look at the enrollment of the grades coming.

The next time divisions are set in a few years, there are really only a couple teams on the line.

Small: Crooksville, West M, Coshocton, River View, Meadowbrook
Big: Tri-Valley, Sheridan, John Glenn, Philo, Maysville

On the line: New Lex and Morgan. I would guess New Lex in big and Morgan in small.

Teach, thank you for the insight. It would appear that you are affiliated with the league as you always seem to have the info discussed at meetings and how change came to be that us casuals aren’t privy to.. But the question that I keep coming back to is, who are the mandatory crossovers beneficial for? I was at the Crooksville/TV basketball game where TV won by 60 this past year. In what way does that benefit Cville? I’m sure if schools had the option to travel 2 hours to find a game that benefits them and their team? I’ll stay with the ceramics… Crooksville was 3-0 in their non-league games in football. I’m sure they would have rather scheduled 2 more games that they could win versus crossovers. West Muskingum a year ago picked up Schroeder out of Cincinnati because they were building. This year they picked up Garaway to test them because they knew how good they were. Even though it may be a challenge to find games, I sense that crossovers main purpose is to protect the bigger schools from having to find games, not the other way around. Do you feel that competitively the crossovers are mutually beneficial for both sides?

[teach1coach2]

I normally reread stuff I post a couple times before hitting submit. Rarely give specifics. It's easy for people with part of the info to form opinions that feel right to them but off base. The MVL functions well as a league and there is a lot of respect among schools. Next to never do disagreements get ugly. Just like any family there are different points of view. (Heck, the Trump and anti-Trump folks in my own family have a hard time making it through a family event.)

First off, West M played Schoeder and Garaway because they could not find anyone who would play them that week in those years.

John Glenn has had a heck of a time finding non league opponents weeks 1-3 in football. New Lex dropped them to add Morgan. Luckily West M will play John Glenn week 3 after finishing the Garaway contract. And now that Maysville is dropping to small school they are going to play John Glenn week 1. Cambridge still at week 2.

Tri-Valley has had an even worse time. They just completed opening with DeSales the last two years. There were 3 teams willing to play TV in an opener two years ago. DeSales, Pickerington Central, and St. X. Meadowbrook is going to play Tri-Valley in week 1 for the next 4 years. Tri-Valley has tried to find a different opponent for week 2 because Licking Heights is a mess from a sportsmanship perspective. So Tri-Valley has been turned down by Dover, New Philly, Bloom Carroll, Licking Valley, Clinton Massie, etc... A couple months after Massie said no they called back and said they could not find an opponent and TV said yes because only D1 and recruiting privates wanted to play. Granville recently said yes to TV and they will play week 2 starting in 2025.

Sheridan has done pretty well with non-league weeks. Logan, Licking Valley, Watkins Memorial, and Licking Heights in the near future.

I would say 3/4 of the schools would not want the cross over football games to go away.

The current issues should diminish some in the next few years. Tri-Valley's current junior class is loaded in multiple sports. They should come back to the pack then............BUT let me gently say this. There are some coaches in the league who get more out of the talent they have and there are some who get less in my humble opinion.

So Tri-Valley plays Crooksville in basketball. They are in the same league. Harvest Prep plays Millersport and Miller. They are in the same league.

Cross over football games in the MVL in 2023 were Crooksville vs Philo and Maysville, West Muskingum vs Philo and Maysville, Coshocton vs River View and John Glenn, Meadowbrook vs River View and John Glenn, Morgan vs Sheridan and Tri-Valley, and New Lexington vs Sheridan and Tri-Valley.

Historically, there is nothing wrong with those match ups.

[teach1coach2]

I answered your question MVL fan, but not directly.

Let me throw this out.
Say the OHSAA is pressured to go back to 8 teams per division for football. A small school (like New Lex, Meadowbrook, Coshocton, West M....pick 1) is just destroying all MVL opponents at all levels of biddy league and continuing in junior high. In this hypothetical world, the two crossover games were voted to not be mandatory anymore. The big schools decline to play the dominant small school. So the loaded school wins weeks 1-3 against teams who aren't going to win many games, picks up weeks 4 and 5 against two top notch teams who beat them, then they go 5-0 in their division. The team finishes 8-2 and 9th in the region. No playoffs. In case you did not know, the more league games you play, the more that pool of Harbin points goes to the most successful league teams. Play less league games, there are less Harbin points for the top teams.

Side note: With 16 teams from a region getting in the playoffs........why are we even talking about cross over games. 3 or 4 teams per MVL division should make it each year. Want a home game, then win your division.

[MVLfan]

I understand some of your points and what you are saying. I think all families have those two distinctly different opinions that can’t always agree.
I just find it difficult to believe that the small schools believe there is the same benefit as the big schools do, again, competitively. I get that Crooksville's two biggest gates are probably Philo and New Lex. But competitively, I can’t see where many small schools would agree that these matchups are equal. But again, we can agree to disagree..

Do you foresee the OHSAA going back to 8 teams per region for playoffs? Especially after the money they’ve earned with it being 16?

[teach1coach2]

I don't think OHSAA will go back to 8 teams in a region. And yes due to the money.

I went to a high school that was the doormat of the league. They moved to another league. They are the doormat there as well.
Obviously neither league I am talking about is the MVL.

So let's say they make the crossover games not mandatory. 2 teams leave the league over time. The major votes to go back to one league and problem solved. No more cross over games because no games are cross over games.

Not being MVL specific. It still really comes down to if you are constantly not happy with a league, find another league.

Have you ever heard about Louisville HS and whay their league did to them about 10-15 years ago>

[MVLfan]

Saw this on the Yappi board, thought it was interesting. (Also whoever did it took a TON of time typing it all up!)
https://yappi.com/forum/index.php?threa ... 23.324824/

MVL All-Time Playoff Records
Tri Valley 17-15
Sheridan 24-24
John Glenn 10-14
Philo 5-11
Maysville 2-4
River View 0-2
Morgan 0-6
New Lex 6-11
Meadowbrook 6-5
West M 2-6
Coshocton 15-17
Crooksville 7-14

[MVLfan]

I don't think OHSAA will go back to 8 teams in a region. And yes due to the money.

I went to a high school that was the doormat of the league. They moved to another league. They are the doormat there as well.
Obviously neither league I am talking about is the MVL.

So let's say they make the crossover games not mandatory. 2 teams leave the league over time. The major votes to go back to one league and problem solved. No more cross over games because no games are cross over games.

Not being MVL specific. It still really comes down to if you are constantly not happy with a league, find another league.

Have you ever heard about Louisville HS and whay their league did to them about 10-15 years ago>

No. I’m not familiar with Louisville HS. What happened?

[Play60Football]

I fixed all the MVL perceived problems! Cultural fits, Better enrollment discrepancy, reasonable travel!! I'm sure it's a slam dunk and everyone will be very pleased!!

LCL
Watkins. 578 575 1153
Licking H. 578 546 1124
Mount Vernon 454 436 890
Granville 314 326 640
Tri-Valley 310 324 634
Sheridan 310 276 586
Zanesville 289 270 559
Licking Valley 263 242 505

MVL
John Glenn 262 232 494
Philo 239 219 458
Maysville 232 215 447
River View 181 211 392
Morgan 194 194 388
New Lex 206 180 386
Meadowbrook 189 196 385
West M 170 164 334
Coshocton 187 139 326

TVC
Crooksville 126 119 245
Belpre 114 111 225
Federal H. 97 104 201
Eastern 97 81 178
Waterford 97 77 174
Southern 82 79 161
Trimble 82 75 157

[Softball5]

Play60,

That is a great idea and makes complete sense for everyone involved. Would Sheridan and Tri Valley be willing to be the smaller schools in that league?

[Play60Football]

Play60,

That is a great idea and makes complete sense for everyone involved. Would Sheridan and Tri Valley be willing to be the smaller schools in that league?

Absolutely not haha! I was just messing around with it, I don't even know if the LCL is looking at more schools. I just think based solely on enrollment numbers the MVL aligns better with those core 9 and Crooksville in the TVC and Sheridan and TV in the LCL. I think those 3 are outliers.

Sheridan and TV would get way more competitive games vs schools who are bigger than them but are not historically better than them. TV and Sheridan would continue to compete at a high level vs the "Big" division of the LCL AND still maintain out of conference rivalries with schools like New Lex, John Glenn and whoever. BUT it would be slightly harder year in and year out. Sheridan and TV have it currently that if they on't win 75% of their games in a season that would be alarming!

Crooksville I've said a lot. I don't know what their Admin are doing. The TVC Hocking seems perfect for them...... But if they want to lose BBall games by 60+, football games by 40+, and baseball games by 20+ that's their business. Their VB program and GBK program are bottoms as well. I think they believe they're at the table with everyone else but no one has told them they're not viewed as equals by the league. The schools only want them around so they have a win on the schedule.

[MVLfan]

I fixed all the MVL perceived problems! Cultural fits, Better enrollment discrepancy, reasonable travel!! I'm sure it's a slam dunk and everyone will be very pleased!!

LCL
Watkins. 578 575 1153
Licking H. 578 546 1124
Mount Vernon 454 436 890
Granville 314 326 640
Tri-Valley 310 324 634
Sheridan 310 276 586
Zanesville 289 270 559
Licking Valley 263 242 505

MVL
John Glenn 262 232 494
Philo 239 219 458
Maysville 232 215 447
River View 181 211 392
Morgan 194 194 388
New Lex 206 180 386
Meadowbrook 189 196 385
West M 170 164 334
Coshocton 187 139 326

TVC
Crooksville 126 119 245
Belpre 114 111 225
Federal H. 97 104 201
Eastern 97 81 178
Waterford 97 77 174
Southern 82 79 161
Trimble 82 75 157

No way the “old guard” would go for this. It is a good idea in principle and oddly enough one that I have heard a couple times now. Sheridan and Tri Valley already play several LCL schools and would compete. Crooksville would move to TVC and compete across the board. MVL would be wide open in every sport and there’s probably no more boo hoo over crossovers. Travel is not bad.. Crooksville might be the worst.
The real question, would those big 2 be ok moving to the LCL? They would hands down be competitive in that league, but not the favorite in all sports, as they currently are.

[Play60Football]

That LCL division would be one of the best divisions in the state in my opinion. Think of the football games but also Baseball and Softball.... Girls Basketball. I would love it to just go watch some games haha

[teach1coach2]

MVL fan,
Louisville was in a league where they dominated in most sports (especially football) for several years, The nine other schools in their league (I believe the league was the NBC) all withdrew from the league at the same meeting, They formed a new league, added one team and continued on. Louisville is still independent and has to search for games all over the state. The are still good at most sports but not great.

The Licking County League has some real issues headed their way with the Intel deal. Licking Heights, Watkins Memorial, and Johnstown are going to see enrollments go way up and may end up with two high schools per school. Granville and others are also going to see some growth. It is also expected to impact MVL schools (West Muskingum, Tri-Valley, and Sheridan) but to a lesser degree.

If just one school ever left the MVL, within a week I suspect Cambridge would be invited in,
.