Waterford 14-2 @ Fort Frye 15-2

Steely Dan · Post by **Steely Dan** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:05 pm

Gregg811 - Excellent!! Glad that you guys bounced back to win this game!

Congrats to Coach Sims and your players. Good luck in the tournament!

g w mclintock · Post by **g w mclintock** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:38 pm

Nice win. Congrats to the 'cats.

throwitdown · Post by **throwitdown** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:42 pm

This was a great win for the Cats. Great team effort. Not sure why we didnt come out like this last night, it was like I was watching a completely different team than the one that played last night. I didnt recognize that team or even realize they were capable of playing that badly. I guess everyone has their bad games, Im just glad we got ours out of our system before tourney time. DJ played with a calm coolness tonight, unlike last night. When he plays like this Waterford is tough to beat. Not to mention Hoge, Lang, and Hendershot had very solid efforts tonight as well. Basketball is all about matchups, we match up very well vs. Fort Frye and not well at all against fed hock. Thats what it comes down to basically. Waterford has a mental edge over fort frye as well and seems to want it a little more maybe, and i think fed hock has the same edge over the cats. To me, its just unbelievable that DJ is a nonfactor as is the whole waterford team against an undersized fed hock team with the tallest kid being around 6'3''. Then tonight DJ and company play Derek Thompson a very polished, athletic 6'5'' post player thats going to play Division 2 ball, and we dominate the paint. I mean Derek Thompson is better than the Vales kid and fort frye is more talented than fed hock also, but we go 0-2 vs. fed hock and 2-0 vs the cadets. I guess sometimes basketball doesnt make a whole lot of sense. It would be interesting to see a fed hock- fort frye matchup, could happen if both teams make it to the elite 8. Fed hock has a great staff and there kids really buy into what they teach. I think thats really important, and it was evident last nite that fed hock was more ready to play and had great preparation. Waterford looked so flat last night and unbelievable tonight, there was just so much more passion and energy. Well i've said enough...good win cats, lets keep it going into next week. Good luck to the cadets and lancers as well i think these three teams should all have good tournament runs this year.

Orestes · Post by **Orestes** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:52 pm

Dude...Federal Hocking is clearly a defensive oriented team. Teams of that nature make their opponents look bad. Vales is a very good player, but he is better defensively than offensively. That is why Cunningham loses his cool and can't dominate the paint.

Against Federal Hocking, Waterford did not move without that movement being contested by a Lancer, they did not make a dribble without that dribble being contested by a Lancer, they did not make a pass without that pass being contested by a Lancer, and they most definitely did not take a shot without the shot being contested by a Lancer.

Ever wonder why Waterford "looked bad" in both games against FH? UCLA was a team much like that last season. They didn't score a whole lot, but they made the opponent play ugly.

I have a feeling that Fort Frye's big man is an offensive player. My guess is that both Hendershot and Cunningham score much easier against him. Thay way, both guys are pleased, as the scoring comes easier and that is what matters to them. So, both guys keep their cool.

I also have the feeling that Waterford's offensive movement was not as contested as it was against FH last night. Those guys wilt under on-the-ball pressure. It happened against FH both times (very good/quick defensive team) and it happened against North Adams in the Convo (NA is famous in D3 for their pressure D). Not a coincidence IMO.

Steely Dan · Post by **Steely Dan** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:15 pm

O - You absolutely nailed it. I was at the North Adams/Waterford game, and saw the Wildcat guards melt under the pressure. North Adams had no answer for Cunningham's height, and had some trouble with the Hendershot kid because of his height and athleticism, but who won the game?

FH contests everything. Vales got into Cunningham's head in both games, and he was basically persona-non-grata last night. Tonight was obviously a different story. Waterford had the mental edge, and FF could not overcome that aspect of the game.

These are teenage kids, they aren't drones. Kids buying into the coaches program and being mentally tough make a HUGE difference, as evidenced here.

Congrats to the Wildcats on their win tonight, and best of luck in the tournament.

throwitdown · Post by **throwitdown** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:36 pm

Steely Dan...were u at the game?? Did you get a good seat??

BUNYAN banner · Post by **BUNYAN banner** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:30 am

Im shocked to hear this. Ive seen both teams play this year and would have never thought that Waterford would win both games! FF has much better guard play but Waterford must have exploited their size against FF. FF should have pressured Waterfords guard in a press the entire game, Waterford cant handle pressure.

Prodigy · Post by **Prodigy** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:37 am

Derek Thompson is a very hard working kid with a big heart. He never quits and he is better the Cory Vales from Fed Hock. Fort Frye cannot match up with the physical play of Waterford, Fed Hock can, thats why Fed Hock beats Waterford. Fort Frye plays post defense and boxes out better than any team i have seen this year. Fort Fryes problem is that they are not very deep, Waterford probably threw 9-10 guys out there tonight, Fort Frye goes 7 deep and without Thompson, they have no post presence.

BUNYAN banner · Post by **BUNYAN banner** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:40 am

hey did FF and FH paly last year? Someone said they did but I never heard the score.

throwitdown · Post by **throwitdown** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:11 am

Waterford isnt deep either. Matter of fact i can tell you that both teams played 7 players in this one, actually fort frye used their bench more than waterford. Waterford played Hoge, Lang, Cunningham, Hendershot, and Tornes almost the entire game. Roe and Strahler were the other two that played, but they only got a couple minutes apiece and niether one of them scored. Fort Frye played Thompson, Thieman, Arnold, Stevens, Lang, Warren, and Bates. This game came down to Waterford exploiting their size mismatch which they forgot to do vs. Fed Hock for some reason. Lang hit huge shoots and didnt turn the ball over. Also, Hoge completely shut down Arnold again, he only had 5 points and two of those were against Roe when we switched for one possession for some reason. He got a wide open layup, then Hoge went back to Arnold. Arnold drilled a 3 the first possession of the game and he couldnt even get off another shot vs. Hoge until a desperation 3 in the final minute of the game. If anyone else guarded Arnold, Fort Frye would have won this ballgame. Good win Cats!! Yes Fort Frye hammered Fed Hock by +20 pts at fort frye. Tyler Engle had 11 threes in that game. Waterford beat fort frye last year in their only meeting at fort frye and waterford lost to fed hock both times last year. Then Fort Frye completely clubbed the Lancers. As I said basketball is all about matchups we have matched up well with fort frye the last few years and not matched up well with the Lancers. And Fed hock didnt match up well at all with the cadets last year. Although waterford lost to fed hock last night and beat fort frye, I believe in a head to head matchup Fort Frye would beat Fed Hock at Beverly or on a neutral court. Maybe they will meet up down the road in the tournaments. I hope so, I would love to see both teams make it that far!!

g w mclintock · Post by **g w mclintock** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:59 am

I'll try to make this as simple as possible:

1. Small and quick (FH) trumps huge and slow(H2Oford).

2. Huge and slow (H2Oford) trumps not as big and poor shooting (Fort Frye).

3. Obviously depth was not a factor in any of these games.
FH played 6 guys. Waterford plays 7. Fort Frye plays 7.

4. Waterford is better than FF as proven by two wins. Federal Hocking is better than Waterford as proven by two wins. Fort Frye and Federal Hocking have not played each other...

5. I will defer any further questions to Orestes or Steely Dan.

Post by **EasternDspy** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:28 pm

Fort Frye is a good team Thompson is a great player and he plays defense.Thompson is much better then Vales.Federal Hocking was much better last season when FF beat Fed Hok by like 25 points.Anyway Waterford comes to play vs FF they wanted it more.FF is better then Federal Hocking saw both teams like 5 times this season.Garaway would smake all these teams.

g w mclintock · Post by **g w mclintock** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 4:32 pm

EasternDspy wrote:Fort Frye is a good team Thompson is a great player and he plays defense.Thompson is much better then Vales.Federal Hocking was much better last season when FF beat Fed Hok by like 25 points.Anyway Waterford comes to play vs FF they wanted it more.FF is better then Federal Hocking saw both teams like 5 times this season.Garaway would smake all these teams.

Federal Hocking graduated 9 seniors from LAST YEAR'S TEAM. I didn't realize Fort Frye had everyone back from last year (including Tyler Engle). LOL

You are comparing apples to oranges my friend. If Thompson is so great (no disrespect intended, I'm sure he is an outstanding player) and FF is so good, why can't they beat Waterford? I hope this is not to blunt but - - -Winners win, losers make excuses.

Steely Dan · Post by **Steely Dan** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 4:55 pm

GW - The comparison wreaks of convoluted logic. No sense in wasting my time with this one

g w mclintock · Post by **g w mclintock** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:24 pm

Steely Dan wrote:GW - The comparison wreaks of convoluted logic. No sense in wasting my time with this one

Actually Dano I have figured it out and it's brilliant logic.

Federal Hocking beats Waterford 6 times in a row but Waterford is better because either a) Federal Hocking has a mental edge or b) FH wanted it more. Remember Waterford is better.

Waterford defeats Fort Frye 4 times in a row but Fort Frye is better because Waterford wanted it more. These games mean nothing to FF and thus Fort Frye is the better team.

Fort Frye defeats Federal Hocking last year but Federal Hocking is better because FF had a mental edge, FF wanted it more and the game meant nothing to Federal Hocking

It's all starting to make sense now... Of course following this logic means everybody is better than Vinton County. LOL See what I mean?

Steely Dan · Post by **Steely Dan** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:38 pm

Yes, I've seen the light. Perfectly clear. This is the same train of thought evoked by some who feel that their team never loses, they only get "screwed".....LOL

OH NO, let's not go there again :lol:

Post by **EasternDspy** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:32 am

I have watched alot of basketball and the game is decided by match-ups.Federal Hocking has speed on Waterford.Fort Frye would beat Federal Hocking.

Post by **EasternDspy** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:36 am

The distributive property does not work in basketball.The team that showed up vs Federal Hocking was a completely different team then the team that played FF sat night.FACT

Orestes · Post by **Orestes** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 12:51 pm

EasternDspy wrote:The distributive property does not work in basketball.The team that showed up vs Federal Hocking was a completely different team then the team that played FF sat night.FACT

How is that a fact? That's not fact. It's your opinion.

Do you know what fact means? It is an indisputable truth. Many intelligent people are disputing it, so it is not indisputable.

Could we not say that Fort Frye played better than usual against Fed Hock last season? Could we not say that Engle shot at a ridiculousy high level, and would have beaten any D3 team that night? Could we not say that Fed Hock did not show up to play at Fort Frye last season?

Sure, we could all make those arguments. None of it is fact.

Here are facts:

FH beat Waterford twice, and once was by 20. FH has not lost to Waterford in several years.

Waterford beat FF twice this season. Both times were by double digits.

You can make any argument you want, but it is not fact. Those are the facts.

Here are some more facts. Federal Hocking has won four straight TVC Hocking titles, including five of the last six. If they can beat Eastern tomorrow, they will have won 20 straight TVC Hocking games, at least. I don't know how many in a row they finished up with in the 2005/2006 season.

Do you get it now?

When I say EasternDspy is a complete tool, that is not a fact. It is simply my opinion, and the opinion of many on this board. There is a difference. Surely, if you searched long enough, you would find someone who feels that you are not a complete tool. It just may take some time.

Post by **EasternDspy** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:20 pm

Eastern District teams like Garaway,St Clairsville,Martins Ferry,Tusky Valley,and Fort Frye will crush the winner of the Adena,South Point,Fairland,and North Adams bracket.I think it is stupid people think because Waterford plays out of there minds vs FF.That Fort Frye is bad.People need to understand is the FF vs Waterford game is a different game.Waterford just plays harder in that game.You guys will see that the Southeast district is a joke.