2018 Season Stats

SEOhio
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2018 Season Stats

Post by SEOhio » Mon May 07, 2018 8:51 am

I know in another thread that we were discussing the lack of team stats that can be read and followed by the members of the community. I know there are a lot of coaches that post on here and/or read the threads. Can you post your team's stats on this thread including batting averages and pitching?


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Gopher
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Re: 2018 Season Stats

Post by Gopher » Mon May 07, 2018 2:46 pm

Stats are very questionable depending on who's Mom is the stats person.



ManitouDan2
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Re: 2018 Season Stats

Post by ManitouDan2 » Mon May 07, 2018 2:53 pm

Cmon Goph , we all know dads keep stats !!



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Re: 2018 Season Stats

Post by BobcatBall » Mon May 07, 2018 2:55 pm

....
Last edited by BobcatBall on Mon May 07, 2018 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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hawkeyepierce
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Re: 2018 Season Stats

Post by hawkeyepierce » Mon May 07, 2018 3:09 pm

I keep stats for Vinton County and I am neither, mom or dad. :roll:



SoftballGirl
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Re: 2018 Season Stats

Post by SoftballGirl » Mon May 07, 2018 3:39 pm

Stats are definitely subjective depending on who is taking the stats. I would never trust the stats if a parent is keeping the book and that includes a coach who has a kid on a the team unless it was someone independent doing book.



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Re: 2018 Season Stats

Post by SoftballGirl » Mon May 07, 2018 3:48 pm

Pitching stats are also subjective depending on the team the pitcher faces. Are teams throwing their #1 pitcher against the better teams or are they throwing them against the weaker teams to beef up their stats and throwing their #2 or #3 pitchers against the better teams. A couple times this year Clay faced off against a teams #2 or #3 pitcher. I know there are other reasons that this can happen but it just seemed odd each time it happened.



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Re: 2018 Season Stats

Post by Gopher » Mon May 07, 2018 3:54 pm

SoftballGirl wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 3:39 pm
Stats are definitely subjective depending on who is taking the stats. I would never trust the stats if a parent is keeping the book and that includes a coach who has a kid on a the team unless it was someone independent doing book.
I would say they are subjective period

Even at the DI level, it depends if you are the home team or visitor. I have seen routine ground balls roll up the glove and over the shoulder of a SS and be ruled an infield hit rather than charge the home team SS with an error.



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Re: 2018 Season Stats

Post by SoftballGirl » Mon May 07, 2018 5:01 pm

I’m not trying to take away from a kid and how she performs but we all know how stats can get manipulated. 70 At Bats over a season and one “hit” that should be a fielders choice or error can add 20 points to the batting average. 5 of those throughout a 20 game season and now a kid is batting .450 instead of .350.



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Re: 2018 Season Stats

Post by SEOhio » Mon May 07, 2018 5:13 pm

I wasn’t thinking of how the stats can be changed depending on who is keeping the book like a parent as a coach. I can see now why these stats aren’t published. Stats needs to be verified to show accuracy. Everyone has made great points and don’t post stats please.


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ManitouDan2
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Re: 2018 Season Stats

Post by ManitouDan2 » Mon May 07, 2018 5:43 pm

SoftballGirl wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 3:48 pm
Pitching stats are also subjective depending on the team the pitcher faces. Are teams throwing their #1 pitcher against the better teams or are they throwing them against the weaker teams to beef up their stats and throwing their #2 or #3 pitchers against the better teams. A couple times this year Clay faced off against a teams #2 or #3 pitcher. I know there are other reasons that this can happen but it just seemed odd each time it happened.
excellent point . Good example Team A : #1 pitcher was 5-9 with a ERA of 2.8 but the same teams # 2 was 9-6 with an ERA of 4.0 . Stats dont always tell the entire story . And in HS , stats rarely tell any story .



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Re: 2018 Season Stats

Post by Ironman92 » Mon May 07, 2018 8:53 pm

During my daughter’s freshman year her mom kept scorebook most of the games. She made it through the first 14 games error free in over 60 chances....that next game vs Gallia Academy their bookkeeper was SEOP’s own gahs4ever.....hardhit ball well to my daughter’s right and 4ever awarded a single, my wife said error! They met after the inning and while he had the official book she convinced him she should’ve had it and it was an error.

Not every parent is out for their kid to make all-state



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Re: 2018 Season Stats

Post by SEOhio » Mon May 07, 2018 10:57 pm

I am not sure how anyone could cheat on stats and still be able to sleep at night. I know there are people like that though. You are just cheating the kids, and they know who has hit or fielded the best all year long. The proof is with the team who plays together day in and day out. If you are doing it for some type of cheesy award at the end of the year, you are doing it for the wrong reason. Different teams play different competition levels so you have to look at what each player did in a tough game versus a game you won by 20 runs and had multiple at bats in versus an inexperienced pitcher. That is when the stats count the most. Remember there is no I in team and these stats drive the chest pumping of look at what my kid can do by the parent or coach who is a parent in HS. Forget the stats because I have learned today that it is definitely not as it appears.


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Re: 2018 Season Stats

Post by BobcatBall » Tue May 08, 2018 7:17 am

Ironman92 wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 8:53 pm
During my daughter’s freshman year her mom kept scorebook most of the games. She made it through the first 14 games error free in over 60 chances....that next game vs Gallia Academy their bookkeeper was SEOP’s own gahs4ever.....hardhit ball well to my daughter’s right and 4ever awarded a single, my wife said error! They met after the inning and while he had the official book she convinced him she should’ve had it and it was an error.

Not every parent is out for their kid to make all-state
I absolutely agree. I happen to coach my own kid and i know for a fact I've listed some of her hits as errors that could have went either way. She knows my rule that as her dad/coach things can't be questionable they have to be black and white. Im not going to let anyone take anything away from her just because I'm her Dad and her coach by letting someone accuse me of fixing stats.

We had a game at a field this year where the scoreboard tracked errors. I saw the other team list a couple errors as hits that were without a doubt ERRORS. Enough that my fielders had to have a talk with me but then I look up and the home team listed it as a hit. The game was still enjoyable and fun but just shows i guess how inaccurate book keeping and stats can be if not done properly.



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Re: 2018 Season Stats

Post by SEOhio » Tue May 08, 2018 9:10 am

BobcatBall wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 7:17 am
Ironman92 wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 8:53 pm
During my daughter’s freshman year her mom kept scorebook most of the games. She made it through the first 14 games error free in over 60 chances....that next game vs Gallia Academy their bookkeeper was SEOP’s own gahs4ever.....hardhit ball well to my daughter’s right and 4ever awarded a single, my wife said error! They met after the inning and while he had the official book she convinced him she should’ve had it and it was an error.

Not every parent is out for their kid to make all-state
I absolutely agree. I happen to coach my own kid and i know for a fact I've listed some of her hits as errors that could have went either way. She knows my rule that as her dad/coach things can't be questionable they have to be black and white. Im not going to let anyone take anything away from her just because I'm her Dad and her coach by letting someone accuse me of fixing stats.

We had a game at a field this year where the scoreboard tracked errors. I saw the other team list a couple errors as hits that were without a doubt ERRORS. Enough that my fielders had to have a talk with me but then I look up and the home team listed it as a hit. The game was still enjoyable and fun but just shows i guess how inaccurate book keeping and stats can be if not done properly.
I definitely agree that if you have to coach your daughter in HS because there isn't a qualified person who applied for the job that you have to be black and white. I learned a lot from other people through the thread and messages that the stats don't give a clear picture yesterday, because they want their child to be the apparent star of the team. I know that I want my girl to be the best, but I want her to earn it like most parents do. I think if I was coaching beyond Little League then I would have an honest person who doesn't have a connection to a player keeping the official book for my team. This way, there is nothing taken away from any child including my own with no questions asked. As to the scoreboard errors, it has been my experience that it is usually a HS kid keeping the scoreboard at most games. It a perfect world the AD of the school should be the one keeping the scoreboard and book but I know that usually doesn't happen. Kids are usually on their phone or preoccupied with anything and just see the ball hit and score it as such. Stats are just numbers in HS because the final run total is what really matters. I just started the thread because we were having a discussion about stats being printed in the newspaper which no way should be printed after everything I have learned. All conferences do a great job with the awards of all conference team members who are voted upon by all the coaches and the state also does the same with their awards of All-Ohio players. It is goal of every team to win the conference and even state which is the largest award of all. If teams want to recognize their own players for awards then it should be based on how well they are students while being athletes along with all conference and all state awards. Every team usually has several deserving athletes that make those teams, and it is clearly deserving since it is voted on by a number of coaches without stats with a BIG question by any and all.


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Re: 2018 Season Stats

Post by hawkeyepierce » Tue May 08, 2018 9:27 am

It is not always a matter of judgement or favoritism. It is a matter of knowing the rules. I have conversations with other scorekeepers and the level of knowing and differentiating is astonishing. For example; I had a person tried to convince me of an inside-the-park home run. The ball was hit hard, into the right-center field gap, the batter had turned toward second. The fielder threw the ball to the wrong cut off who dropped the ball, the batter, now runner saw this and took off for third, the cut-off fielder throws the ball to third and over throws her, and the runner scores at home. Question. What should the batter be awarded with, and who(m) committed the error(s)?

Answer: The right fielder fielded the ball cleanly, although she did throw it to the wrong person that is not an error. The error occurred, in this case when the first baseman dropped the ball, that allowed the runner to move up to an unearned base, third base. Now, the second error occurred when the first baseman overthrew the third baseman, allowing the base runner to move up another unearned base and score. Therefore, it is ruled a double, with 2 errors on the first baseman.



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Re: 2018 Season Stats

Post by SEOhio » Tue May 08, 2018 9:33 am

hawkeyepierce wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 9:27 am
It is not always a matter of judgement or favoritism. It is a matter of knowing the rules. I have conversations with other scorekeepers and the level of knowing and differentiating is astonishing. For example; I had a person tried to convince me of an inside-the-park home run. The ball was hit hard, into the right-center field gap, the batter had turned toward second. The fielder threw the ball to the wrong cut off who dropped the ball, the batter, now runner saw this and took off for third, the cut-off fielder throws the ball to third and over throws her, and the runner scores at home. Question. What should the batter be awarded with, and who(m) committed the error(s)?

Answer: The right fielder fielded the ball cleanly, although she did throw it to the wrong person that is not an error. The error occurred, in this case when the first baseman dropped the ball, that allowed the runner to move up to an unearned base, third base. Now, the second error occurred when the first baseman overthrew the third baseman, allowing the base runner to move up another unearned base and score. Therefore, it is ruled a double, with 2 errors on the first baseman.
How many scorekeepers in HS has the knowledge or even will score this play with 2 errors? Most of the time, they will score it as a homerun so that they don't disappoint the players or parents of the player when it really isn't a homerun at all. I see it all the time that people think it is whatever if a player hits the ball and ends up on whatever bag at the end of the dismay of plays of the fielders.


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Re: 2018 Season Stats

Post by BobcatBall » Tue May 08, 2018 9:44 am

hawkeyepierce wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 9:27 am
It is not always a matter of judgement or favoritism. It is a matter of knowing the rules. I have conversations with other scorekeepers and the level of knowing and differentiating is astonishing. For example; I had a person tried to convince me of an inside-the-park home run. The ball was hit hard, into the right-center field gap, the batter had turned toward second. The fielder threw the ball to the wrong cut off who dropped the ball, the batter, now runner saw this and took off for third, the cut-off fielder throws the ball to third and over throws her, and the runner scores at home. Question. What should the batter be awarded with, and who(m) committed the error(s)?

Answer: The right fielder fielded the ball cleanly, although she did throw it to the wrong person that is not an error. The error occurred, in this case when the first baseman dropped the ball, that allowed the runner to move up to an unearned base, third base. Now, the second error occurred when the first baseman overthrew the third baseman, allowing the base runner to move up another unearned base and score. Therefore, it is ruled a double, with 2 errors on the first baseman.
That is the correct scoring lol. As i was reading it that's what i had before reading the conclusion. A lot of time my score keeper will come to me after the game if it's questionable and ask me how to score it. I usually remember most the errors as a coach lol.
With the Gamechanger and MaxPreps sites to keep stats that everyone can see i do think scoring is getting a little more accurate. But with our travel team i help coach i know if a dad tells me his daughter throws 60 and hits .450 he really means she throws 54 and hits .380

Nothing against a parent, they are bragging up their kid like the SHOULD, trust me no one else will.
But I've learned to take stats as a reference point instead of an exact.



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Re: 2018 Season Stats

Post by SEOhio » Tue May 08, 2018 10:07 am

BobcatBall wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 9:44 am
hawkeyepierce wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 9:27 am
It is not always a matter of judgement or favoritism. It is a matter of knowing the rules. I have conversations with other scorekeepers and the level of knowing and differentiating is astonishing. For example; I had a person tried to convince me of an inside-the-park home run. The ball was hit hard, into the right-center field gap, the batter had turned toward second. The fielder threw the ball to the wrong cut off who dropped the ball, the batter, now runner saw this and took off for third, the cut-off fielder throws the ball to third and over throws her, and the runner scores at home. Question. What should the batter be awarded with, and who(m) committed the error(s)?

Answer: The right fielder fielded the ball cleanly, although she did throw it to the wrong person that is not an error. The error occurred, in this case when the first baseman dropped the ball, that allowed the runner to move up to an unearned base, third base. Now, the second error occurred when the first baseman overthrew the third baseman, allowing the base runner to move up another unearned base and score. Therefore, it is ruled a double, with 2 errors on the first baseman.
That is the correct scoring lol. As i was reading it that's what i had before reading the conclusion. A lot of time my score keeper will come to me after the game if it's questionable and ask me how to score it. I usually remember most the errors as a coach lol.
With the Gamechanger and MaxPreps sites to keep stats that everyone can see i do think scoring is getting a little more accurate. But with our travel team i help coach i know if a dad tells me his daughter throws 60 and hits .450 he really means she throws 54 and hits .380

Nothing against a parent, they are bragging up their kid like the SHOULD, trust me no one else will.
But I've learned to take stats as a reference point instead of an exact.
It is a lot easier to score plays when it happens then ask the coach after a 7 inning game if it was an error or not. Once again, having a knowledgeable and unconnected person doing the book should be what is occurring. The Gamechanger app and Maxpreps are tech based and relies solely what you put into the programs. I totally agree that parents should brag on their child and I am the first one she sees when she walks off the field and the game is over. I am glad to hear that you take stats as a reference point only. It appeared yesterday with your post that you had a lot of stats that many people don't account for in HS only in the MLB.


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Re: 2018 Season Stats

Post by SEOhio » Tue May 08, 2018 10:23 am

BobcatBall wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 9:44 am
hawkeyepierce wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 9:27 am
It is not always a matter of judgement or favoritism. It is a matter of knowing the rules. I have conversations with other scorekeepers and the level of knowing and differentiating is astonishing. For example; I had a person tried to convince me of an inside-the-park home run. The ball was hit hard, into the right-center field gap, the batter had turned toward second. The fielder threw the ball to the wrong cut off who dropped the ball, the batter, now runner saw this and took off for third, the cut-off fielder throws the ball to third and over throws her, and the runner scores at home. Question. What should the batter be awarded with, and who(m) committed the error(s)?

Answer: The right fielder fielded the ball cleanly, although she did throw it to the wrong person that is not an error. The error occurred, in this case when the first baseman dropped the ball, that allowed the runner to move up to an unearned base, third base. Now, the second error occurred when the first baseman overthrew the third baseman, allowing the base runner to move up another unearned base and score. Therefore, it is ruled a double, with 2 errors on the first baseman.
That is the correct scoring lol. As i was reading it that's what i had before reading the conclusion. A lot of time my score keeper will come to me after the game if it's questionable and ask me how to score it. I usually remember most the errors as a coach lol.
With the Gamechanger and MaxPreps sites to keep stats that everyone can see i do think scoring is getting a little more accurate. But with our travel team i help coach i know if a dad tells me his daughter throws 60 and hits .450 he really means she throws 54 and hits .380

Nothing against a parent, they are bragging up their kid like the SHOULD, trust me no one else will.
But I've learned to take stats as a reference point instead of an exact.
So you help coach a travel ball team and also coach a HS team, doesn't that open you up for other issues with contact outside of your season and possible recruiting violations against the school? I wasn't aware that you was allowed to do that since you are employed by a school for a HS team. Hopefully you have a younger daughter also and are referring to a travel ball team with players at the Junior High level or below. OHSAA has clear rules about contact and travel ball.


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Re: 2018 Season Stats

Post by SOSoftball » Tue May 08, 2018 10:34 am

SEOhio wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 10:23 am
BobcatBall wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 9:44 am
hawkeyepierce wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 9:27 am
It is not always a matter of judgement or favoritism. It is a matter of knowing the rules. I have conversations with other scorekeepers and the level of knowing and differentiating is astonishing. For example; I had a person tried to convince me of an inside-the-park home run. The ball was hit hard, into the right-center field gap, the batter had turned toward second. The fielder threw the ball to the wrong cut off who dropped the ball, the batter, now runner saw this and took off for third, the cut-off fielder throws the ball to third and over throws her, and the runner scores at home. Question. What should the batter be awarded with, and who(m) committed the error(s)?

Answer: The right fielder fielded the ball cleanly, although she did throw it to the wrong person that is not an error. The error occurred, in this case when the first baseman dropped the ball, that allowed the runner to move up to an unearned base, third base. Now, the second error occurred when the first baseman overthrew the third baseman, allowing the base runner to move up another unearned base and score. Therefore, it is ruled a double, with 2 errors on the first baseman.
That is the correct scoring lol. As i was reading it that's what i had before reading the conclusion. A lot of time my score keeper will come to me after the game if it's questionable and ask me how to score it. I usually remember most the errors as a coach lol.
With the Gamechanger and MaxPreps sites to keep stats that everyone can see i do think scoring is getting a little more accurate. But with our travel team i help coach i know if a dad tells me his daughter throws 60 and hits .450 he really means she throws 54 and hits .380

Nothing against a parent, they are bragging up their kid like the SHOULD, trust me no one else will.
But I've learned to take stats as a reference point instead of an exact.
So you help coach a travel ball team and also coach a HS team, doesn't that open you up for other issues with contact outside of your season and possible recruiting violations against the school? I wasn't aware that you was allowed to do that since you are employed by a school for a HS team. Hopefully you have a younger daughter also and are referring to a travel ball team with players at the Junior High level or below. OHSAA has clear rules about contact and travel ball.
OHSAA changed that rule. As long as they still follow the No Contact Rule and don't have more than 4 girls from the same school on the team a High School coach can coach a travel team.



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Re: 2018 Season Stats

Post by SEOhio » Tue May 08, 2018 11:18 am

SOSoftball wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 10:34 am
SEOhio wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 10:23 am
BobcatBall wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 9:44 am


That is the correct scoring lol. As i was reading it that's what i had before reading the conclusion. A lot of time my score keeper will come to me after the game if it's questionable and ask me how to score it. I usually remember most the errors as a coach lol.
With the Gamechanger and MaxPreps sites to keep stats that everyone can see i do think scoring is getting a little more accurate. But with our travel team i help coach i know if a dad tells me his daughter throws 60 and hits .450 he really means she throws 54 and hits .380

Nothing against a parent, they are bragging up their kid like the SHOULD, trust me no one else will.
But I've learned to take stats as a reference point instead of an exact.
So you help coach a travel ball team and also coach a HS team, doesn't that open you up for other issues with contact outside of your season and possible recruiting violations against the school? I wasn't aware that you was allowed to do that since you are employed by a school for a HS team. Hopefully you have a younger daughter also and are referring to a travel ball team with players at the Junior High level or below. OHSAA has clear rules about contact and travel ball.
OHSAA changed that rule. As long as they still follow the No Contact Rule and don't have more than 4 girls from the same school on the team a High School coach can coach a travel team.
I didn't know that had changed. How can they follow the no contact rule and coach outside of the season? I would think a school district would not want a coach to do this because of the repercussion if the coach does not meet all the OHSAA rules. There is also issues with recruiting if a child from a travel team would transfer to that district to play. If the coach would be found to violate an OHSAA, the district would be punished along with the coach. Does the coach have to notify the district that they are coaching a travel ball team?


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Re: 2018 Season Stats

Post by SOSoftball » Tue May 08, 2018 11:23 am

The no contact period is during the month of August. Most team don't play during that month anyway.



SEOhio
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Re: 2018 Season Stats

Post by SEOhio » Tue May 08, 2018 11:26 am

I am reading that the no contact period occurs August-Labor Day. I noticed a lot of rules have changed and it is also interesting to read about the open gym/field rule where no instruction (batting cages, hitting ground balls, etc.) can occur at these.
Last edited by SEOhio on Tue May 08, 2018 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: 2018 Season Stats

Post by SOSoftball » Tue May 08, 2018 11:32 am

SEOhio wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 11:26 am
I am reading that the no contact period starts at the end of the season (tournament) and they are free to coach travel June 1-July 31 according to the OHSAA website then they are back to no contact from August 1-February.
From OHSAA:

Sport Regulation 7.5 – Coaching Out of Season in Club/Travel Softball
By now, you have certainly heard of this change – a change that will now permit school coaches to coach ‘travel’ (non-school) softball outside the
season with players from your school teams on it. With the “fall ball” craze approaching, it is important you be very clear on the limitations with this.
Though a change in this regulation does now permit school coaches this opportunity, other regulations remain unchanged that prohibit any coaching
during the August no-contact period and limit non-school/club/travel teams to 4 players that played for the same school teams the previous season
and also prohibit rotating players on and off the club/travel team roster. This information has been provided in detail to your Athletic Director.

Softball No-Contact Period
Just a simple reminder that the No-Contact Period for softball (and selected other sports) runs the ‘month of August’ – from August 1 – August 31.
Though it is fairly straight forward – NO Contact means NO Contact, you can read the specifics of the No-Contact Period at:
http://www.ohsaa.org/sports/sb/girls/20 ... ctRule.pdf



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