HERE THEY COME: YOUNGSTOWN URSULINE

[55buckeyes98]

In my opinion public vs. private has never been about the kids programs "get"... to me it's always been about how the kids private schools don't "have to get." If that makes any sense. Yeah that's great that a team like NC has a youth program and the kids play as NC their whole career. But... there are a certain % of kids that private schools don't have to deal with that would make their enrollment go up. I think at bare minimum private schools should just play up one division with division 6 all public schools.

[maniac66]

Well when push comes to shove better be ready to push till things change that is the nature of the beast private or not

[selonmc]

It's statistically improbable for a true D5 program to have as many blue chip athletes that Ursuline routinely gets. When was the last time your D5 school sent anybody to a BCS conference school on a full scholarship? Most D5 schools typically go a generation before they have an athlete on the gridiron that can play D1 ball, and then it is usually somewhere in the MAC and as a walk-on. Ursuline routinely gets these type of athletes each and every year. All it takes is 5 or 6 kids that could play on Saturday (any level) to absolutely pummel D5 teams. If you have a strong class then more power to you; but if you have them every year something isn't quite fair in my opinion. Most D5 schools draw from about 9,000 people. Ursuline and Mooney owns Youngstown which has 80,000+.

[YOU'RE TIGER BAIT]

selon, you could not be more correct, it is statiscally impossible to have this type of program year in and out that can beat most d1 and d2 programs in the state. without the recruiting of huge metropolitan areas. ironton who is only 2 players away from d5, could never compete against ursilines schedule. and they have i think the second most playoff appearences in the state of ohio.and are a top team in the state every year in their division.anybody that does not see it, in my opinion, is being blind to the facts.why then are so many other states going to seperate championships.what would it hurt.
THE OLD SAYING TO BE THE BEST, YOU GOTTA BEAT THE BEST,is not even applicable here. that would be the equivalent of irontomn having
say ironton ----10,000
huntington-----------maybe 40,000
portsmouth --------25,000
and ashland, ky-------maybe 30,000
all those programs involved , you add up their totals, and thats roughly what youngstown ursiline has to choose from.and you can see how geographically spread out this area is.perhaps a small state.and they have this concentrated right there in one city.not to mention those that are trucked in from every outlying community that is struggling to field a team. THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE CALL FAIR.for years i've been beating this horse, hoping the right person sees it, and makes a change.

[Steely Dan]

Pastuer's site has Ursuline not making the cut, even winning out. Will be interesting to see when Eitel updates if he has them classified as "mathematically eliminated".

[YOU'RE TIGER BAIT]

whether they make it or not, frankly i hope they don't so real d5 teams actually have a chance competing.

[YOU'RE TIGER BAIT]

i heard that fido.

[superblue]

Pastuer's site has Ursuline not making the cut, even winning out. Will be interesting to see when Eitel updates if he has them classified as "mathematically eliminated".

Good!

Maybe I am looking at something different but I believe Pastuers site still has Ursuline as having a 6% chance of making playoffs... If you look at Eitels Min & Max numbers you will see that Ursuline still has a chance.... But I don't believe it will happen.....

[Steely Dan]

My comments were based on the Max Win Out points for Youngstown U, the chance of them getting in are extremely slim, as evidenced by the 6% odds on Pastuer's site. The moon and the stars would have to align for Ursuline to get in. A bunch of teams would have to lose in week 10.

[NorthernLight]

Ohio Division 5, Region 17

Joe Eitel



1 9-0 812 Kirtland Kirtland 19.8500 40.5 153.5 100 clinched #1 seed 23.7000 21.3500 22.6500 20.3000 100

2 8-1 1063 Woodsfield Monroe Central 17.1212 30.0 136.5 99 clinched home game 19.4606 18.6020 18.7071 17.8485 99






3 8-1 436 Columbiana Crestview 14.6722 33.5 109.5 100 control own destiny 17.2000 16.2000 16.4500 15.4500 100

4 7-2 1478 New Middletown Springfield 13.5389 26.0 106.5 100 . 17.1500 15.1500 15.6000 13.6000 100

5 7-2 624 Sugarcreek Garaway 13.0167 28.5 98.5 100 . 17.2500 15.3500 15.0000 13.1000 100

6 7-2 1010 Campbell Memorial 12.7833 30.0 94.5 100 . 17.4500 15.3500 15.0000 12.9000 100

7 8-1 446 Cuyahoga Heights Cuyahoga Heights 12.5333 34.5 87.0 100 . 18.1500 14.5500 15.7500 12.1500 100

8 8-1 1456 Salineville Southern 12.2222 29.0 90.0 100 . 15.8500 14.3500 14.1000 12.6000 100

9 7-2 408 Columbiana Columbiana 11.9611 28.0 88.5 100 . 15.8500 13.9500 13.9500 12.0500 100

10 5-4 1378 Louisville St Thomas Aquinas 10.3152 23.5 75.5 98 . 16.7796 14.3816 12.4520 10.0541 98

11 7-2 162 Barnesville Barnesville 9.9569 29.0 66.0 98 . 14.8316 12.5357 12.2878 9.9918 98

12 6-3 1630 Atwater Waterloo 8.6717 23.5 60.0 99 . 12.9015 11.1338 10.5318 8.7641 99

13 3-6 1580 Youngstown Ursuline 8.0965 16.5 59.5 95 . 14.6237 12.8342 9.7026 7.9132 95

14 5-4 1328 Rootstown Rootstown 7.9167 19.5 57.5 100 . 12.5500 10.4500 9.8000 7.7000 100

15 5-4 182 Bellaire Bellaire 6.9898 22.5 44.0 98 . 12.9041 10.4041 9.2398 6.7398 98

[billcox]

Can someone please explain to me how private schools that are able to draw students from a huge district/diocese are any different than public schools who have open enrollment?? What is the difference for example between a student commuting across Columbus from a different district to attend Watterson or Desales and a student who commutes from Dublin to attend school at Hilliard Davidson??

[rut151]

so with this said. maybe it's time to bring up the annual debate about private schools. obviously nobody, i mean nobody, but the youngstown community wants these guys in the playoffs, heck , i'm tickled to death they are d5. i want nothing to do with them, at all. so how do you configure a team this dominant in lil d5, without not carefully handpicking out the best athletes in the youngstown area. don't tell me it's coaching-----------pul-eeeze. they have an incredible advantage over public schools, i'll debate this till i die, there needs to be a public, and a private school state championship. other states know it and are doing it. put the stubborn pride aside for just 1 moment, and ask yourself is this a fair situation, i simply think it is not, jmho, bait.

Well stated, private schools simplyhave the luxury of managing their numbers and players that are admitted in to the schools. It is an advantage plain and simple. Y U is a prime example, no way they would reamain as a D-5 school in a very large city like Youngstown. I believe it is great to schedule these schools for non-league games due to fact that they are tough to beat. Forming private school regions would be great, however it will not happen IMO

[Jesco White]

Can someone please explain to me how private schools that are able to draw students from a huge district/diocese are any different than public schools who have open enrollment?? What is the difference for example between a student commuting across Columbus from a different district to attend Watterson or Desales and a student who commutes from Dublin to attend school at Hilliard Davidson??

Open enrollment has been around for 20 years, and it doesn't work the way you described. It's not as simple as picking a school and "commuting" there. There are quite a few rules involved with open enrollment. It is much different than attending a private school.

[Mercerville Monster]

Who cares if they are public or private, loaded or not loaded, or giving out vouchers or recruiting? I personally enjoy watching them and the talent they have. I watched them absolutely annihilate Coldwater last year in Canton and enjoyed every minute of it. Why? Because I enjoy watching football and I enjoy watching teams that are talented. Do they have an unfair advantage? Sure, but that's not what I'm thinking when I am watching them. I am watching some of the most talented players in the United States play high school football. Not many states can say that. Take West Virginia for example. They may produce 15 D-1 recruits in the whole state in one year and teams like YU almost have that on one team. The state isn't going to change it because it makes them money, people pay to see great teams like this play. You never hear these cries when private schools are losing but once they are winning it is the first thing you read.

[Crab's Brother]

Who cares if they are public or private, loaded or not loaded, or giving out vouchers or recruiting? I personally enjoy watching them and the talent they have. I watched them absolutely annihilate Coldwater last year in Canton and enjoyed every minute of it. Why? Because I enjoy watching football and I enjoy watching teams that are talented. Do they have an unfair advantage? Sure, but that's not what I'm thinking when I am watching them. I am watching some of the most talented players in the United States play high school football. Not many states can say that. Take West Virginia for example. They may produce 15 D-1 recruits in the whole state in one year and teams like YU almost have that on one team. The state isn't going to change it because it makes them money, people pay to see great teams like this play. You never hear these cries when private schools are losing but once they are winning it is the first thing you read.

So, if your homegrown Rebels put together the best team they ever had and ripped through Region 23 and advanced to the final four and Ursuline was in D6, would you feel the same when they hung 70?

[Mercerville Monster]

So, if your homegrown Rebels put together the best team they ever had and ripped through Region 23 and advanced to the final four and Ursuline was in D6, would you feel the same when they hung 70?

In all honesty, yes. I seen Delphos St Johns do it to Shadyside last year and you never heard one complaint out of any of their fans. When Delphos was up 60 Shadysides fans were cheering as if they were only down 7. When it comes down to it, you just got beat by a better team.

And it's not like public schools don't beat private schools. Coldwater done it to Mooney a few years back, Wayne lost to St Ed and actually should have won last year, and the Hartley game wasn't a blowout so it's not like these teams are going in there and completely wiping the floor with public schools. Sure you will have a couple blowouts but it would be the same if two public schools met up. If you are truly good enough to be a state champion, you will get there and chances are the game will be close.

These other public schools that are playing in the state championships don't care if they are playing a public school or a private. One because they play a number of them during the regular season and two, they expect to win and don't accept anything else. They get beat, they work all year round with what they need to do to get better in mind to make it back the next year. After going to the state championships for a few years now, I have noticed the culture is different in perennial state championship towns like Coldwater where losing is failure and it stays in their mind until the next year, no excuses, no matter who the opponent is or was.

[Crab's Brother]

That's your opinion and that is fine. There are a lot of occasions where the public schools do compete and they have to be very satisfying.

I don't think it would be real fair for a new private school in the county to start up basically as a "football factory". I mean, if this school could basically choose who gets in and who doesn't and manipulate the enrollment numbers to ensure they are at a certain divisional cutoff. I just don't care for it.

[coop]

So, if your homegrown Rebels put together the best team they ever had and ripped through Region 23 and advanced to the final four and Ursuline was in D6, would you feel the same when they hung 70?

In all honesty, yes. I seen Delphos St Johns do it to Shadyside last year and you never heard one complaint out of any of their fans. When Delphos was up 60 Shadysides fans were cheering as if they were only down 7. When it comes down to it, you just got beat by a better team.

And it's not like public schools don't beat private schools. Coldwater done it to Mooney a few years back, Wayne lost to St Ed and actually should have won last year, and the Hartley game wasn't a blowout so it's not like these teams are going in there and completely wiping the floor with public schools. Sure you will have a couple blowouts but it would be the same if two public schools met up. If you are truly good enough to be a state champion, you will get there and chances are the game will be close.

These other public schools that are playing in the state championships don't care if they are playing a public school or a private. One because they play a number of them during the regular season and two, they expect to win and don't accept anything else. They get beat, they work all year round with what they need to do to get better in mind to make it back the next year. After going to the state championships for a few years now, I have noticed the culture is different in perennial state championship towns like Coldwater where losing is failure and it stays in their mind until the next year, no excuses, no matter who the opponent is or was.

No you wouldnt...you'd be all pissed off and on here with a thread that says "Ursuline University" or something similar.

[maniac66]

It isn't fair to the kids in public school when a school can stock their program like Ursuline and cut enrollment to keep them in Div 5.
Some thing does need done make 2 separate divisions for private schools would be the ideal fix.
And if a public wants to play a private then so be but let it be in regular season and not in playoffs.
When private schools win 4 or 5 of the state tittles every year then something is wrong just my view.

[The Flying Dutchman]

First of all, how many geeks have been turned away from YU? The only reason most kids transfer from one school to the next is sports so lets see how many non-athletes these schools are turning away before we say they hold down enrollment. I dont know of too many Catholic schools that would turn away anyone who could pay tuition but maybe your right. Vouchers on the other hand is something you need to take up with your politicians, they started that deal.
The reason they will not ever be seperate is schools like Elder, St. X, Moeller, Iggy, St. Eds, etc are cash cows for the OHSAA. If they seperate, those big schools will file an injuction and leave the OHSAA. There is already talk that Catholic schools in Cincy, Indy and Louisville are going to form a conference so they will have people to play if push comes to shove. The OHSAA loves to see 30000 people at a playoff game between Elder and St. X at 9.00 a pop.