7 divisions for football in 2013

[Paladin]

RHp2 --your reading comprehension isn't good. I was projecting my comments to the FUTURE in the new 7 division set-up. That format is going to allow the following to happen -- the teams get split down even farther so that schools, such as those in the NE, will play tough schedules and some losing records will make it in to the playoffs because they beat larger schools. Last years Ursuline team, which didn't make the playoffs with a losing reord just missed and would get in under the new 7 divisions. Additionally, the private schools will be further split up and more of them will make it in where they currently keep each other out. And finally, I've said for years and years, for those who will listen, SEO murders itself anually with their poor non-competitive schedules. most of which are set up to win games and NOT BETTER THEIR PROGRAMS. You do the opposite of what most do around the state, this is , they SEEK BETTER COMPETITION to get BETTER. That fact has been WELL KNOWN in coaching circles since I coached ( long time ago, lol). And the ACTUAL track record bears that out -- it is RARE for a SEO te3am to play for a championship. They are unprepared from their easy schedules.

Fact.

[RHparent2]

I can read just fine and dandy.....you said beat to a pulp.....a loss than less than 10 is not beat to a pulp......just saying.

[RHparent2]

I also said there has to be a multiplier for private schools......

[Paladin]

And if you READ , I wasn't talking about the past, I was talking about the FUTURE.

A multiplier will do NOTHING to rectify the problem.

Enjoy La La Land

[trojandave]

I have agreed repeatedly with Paladin on his stance about why SE District teams do not fare well in the playoffs.......as he said, a SE team may get a playoff win vs. another SE team, but when the SE team plays a team in another district, but still same region, the outcome overwhelmingly goes in favor of the non-SE team.

Schedule has a lot to do with the lack of success of SE District teams, as Paladin stated.......and also the fact that there is more speed in other parts of the state than there is in the SE District........I have witnessed myself teams from the SE District that simply could not handle the speed of teams outside of SE Ohio.

SE District teams tend to schedule more within their district, rarely venturing outside SE Ohio to play a bonafide good program.......maybe travel has something to do with that decision, but what ends up happening sometimes in the playoffs is a SE District team having to travel a long distance for a playoff game anyway.

As far as a SE District team winning its region, Portsmouth West won it in 2002, finishing state runnerup to Kenton and QB Ben Mauk.......West did beat Youngstown Ursuline in the semifinal........Ironton last won its region in 1999, finishing state runnerup to Sandusky Perkins........Wheelersburg won the state title in 1989, but I don't believe they have won their region since then..........Jackson rolled through the SEOAL last year (2011), with many lopsided wins, but didn't win their region, losing in the 2nd round after beating Athens in the first playoff game. Logan went undefeated 3 years ago with QB Patrick Angle but lost to Columbus Brookhaven in the 2nd round in a game I attended.

My school, Portsmouth, won its D3 regional title in 2000, beating Cincinnati Purcell-Marian 37-7, and then Dayton Chaminade-Julienne 31-24 in the regional final.......unfortunately the Trojans lost 28-21 to Van Wert in the state semifinals, then VW lost to Canton Central Catholic 28-27 in the state championship on a missed extra point........I thought we would win the state after the Chaminade game, but we didn't play our best against Van Wert and they took advantage of it..........we were really close, though, to winning the state title that year!!

It's tough to win the regional title, but it would probably happen more often for SE District teams if they upgraded their non-conference schedules and incorporated more speed in their program.........the first issue, though, is much easier to accomplish than the speed factor.

[Westfan]

Do the state championships move to Columbus next year?

Some schools compete down here. Schedules do need beefed up. The reasons regions are so big is there aren't near as many schools in southern ohio even though the area is vast. Have to have the same number per region. This will get worse with 7 divisions. Less schools per division will make it easier to make the playoffs. Should be more incentive to beef up the schedules.

[Jesco White]

To add to the short list of SE teams that have won a Regional Title in the last 25 years, Wheelersburg also won in 1994 before losing in the State Semi's.

Overall I agree with Paladin and Trojan Dave. I heard a parent refer to an SOC Jr High group as being "State Championship" caliber when the 2 classes are Juniors & Seniors. I actually laughed at him. The majority of "fans" in our area have ZERO concept of how competitive teams are in other parts of the state.

[trojandave]

Thanks, Jesco White for the correction on Wheelersburg........I know it had been a while since the Pirates won their region, and I'm glad you set the record straight on that.

I, too, have heard comments similar to what you've heard.......and I feel the same way you do.

Just taking a look at one conference, just consider how incredibly successful the Midwest Athletic Conference has been since the playoffs began........St.Henry, Versailles, Coldwater, Delphos St.John's, and Maria Stein Marion Local have all won multiple state titles from that conference.......I believe the MAc has won almost 100 state titles, all sports combined.......and the MAC is situated in a somewhat isolated, sparsely populated part of western Ohio.......the county populations in that region aren't much different than those in SE Ohio.......in fact, Scioto, Ross, and Lawrence counties in SE Ohio have greater populations.

I can't say for sure what makes the MAC a powerhouse, but it may just be more of a committment to excellence.

[Westfan]

We go to Eldora speedway alot. Usually drive around the MAC schools to pass time. There is nothing there except corn fields. But they have great sports facilities, especially Coldwater. It's obvious by all the flags and signs that they have great support. The only large town is Celina, and they may be one of the lessor programs in the area.

[Paladin]

I coached against another fellow coach who left his Eastern Ohio team and went to Maria Stein Marion Local. Saw him later at a coaching clinic. The usual conversation turned to what did he find different there. Answer --

most kids there are from German Catholic backgrounds, as is most of the MAC. All are small towns, just like SEO. Schools are tight knit and have alot of pride in themselves vs outsiders. TEams there EMBRACE tough competition and do all they can to avoid weak sister programs ( unlike SEO). All have strong community support ( booster clubs,etc). And lastly no one leaves because someone may dominate for a few years. Coldwater was a D-4 while the rest are D-5 and D-6. Even have a private school imcluded ( Delphos St. John). That competitive level brings out the coaching that is needed to survive. As well as the kids to stand for themselves and their community. Its a simple set of concepts, but they practice it like a religion. Many places in the state will not do all that for a sustained period of time. Coaches look for cheap wins, kids aren't always as dedicated and ditto the communities..Competition isn't as keen and competitve level falls.

[Jesco White]

You're welcome trojandave.

It would be nice to see some of our local teams take advantage of the increased "slack" with the addition of another division and thus adding 32 more playoff teams state-wide, by adding a couple of games each year outside of the area. Most conferences have 5-7 league games, which allows for quite a bit of scheduling flexibility. lt might take a couple of years to work it out, and then it could take a few more years of tweaking the schedule and learning/growing as a program from the experience, but over the course of 5-6 years things could begin to change significantly. I'm sure at this point it's only a pipe dream, but it would still be nice to see.

[FarAwayFalcon]

Economics is as big of a factor as anything. You compare Scioto County and Mercer County.

Scioto Mercer
Population 76,334 40,666
Avg Income $32,454 $50,029
Unemployment 14.9% 9.2%
Avg Home Value $63k $94K

As a whole, more kids from families with higher income can afford to play sports. Also, their family is more likely to have money for off-season trainers, etc.

It's not just a numbers problem, it's a money problem IMO.

[yabbadabbadoo]

Actually Burg won there region in 1998 and lost to Versailles in the state semi-finals 14-7. Talked to a guy who went to the state finals the next week and said Burg would have won just as easy as Versailles did. That was one Burg let get away.



Paladin is right about the SOS, but if a lot of these teams around here scheduled up, they probably would have a hard time winning those games and then wouldn't make the playoffs. Ironton and Burg are about the only two around here that will really play teams from out of the area. Burg has traveled to Columbus, St. Clairsville and Martin's Ferry over the last few years. They have also in years past played Huntington East and Cabell Midland out of WV and Johnson Central, KY. I would like to see them pick up Ashland, KY.


The things with SEO teams is that they are all still run oriented offenses. I watched most of all of the finals last year and just about every team threw the ball more than they ran it. Wheelersburg's offense is more like some of those teams from up there and we will see how that offense fairs starting this Saturday. Most teams from the smaller schools have trouble defending the pass and when the small schools from down here run into an offense like that, it bites them in the butt because they haven't seen it.

[Jesco White]

Thanks yabba. I kept thinking there was another Burg team that won a Regional Title, but couldn't recall the year.

[coop]

While I agree with what Paladin, Jesco and Atown are saying OVERALL...Valley and Burg have faired well in the playoffs against "non" SEO teams if you will

05
W over Grandview Heights (CBUS)
W over Bishop Ready (CBUS)
L to Centerburg

11
W over Ridgewood
W over Ashland Crestview
L to Wynford

Valley's total combined point loss in these games = 11

Granted thats only 2 years, but the Indians seem to fair well against the other areas of the state in the playoffs. That was another reason I didnt wanna play Coal Grove, would have rather been Hillsdale just to play against teams from other areas.

Good discussion, however.

[Crab's Brother]

There is no doubt that SEO is lagging behind the rest of the state in football. This area is pretty competitive in basketball and baseball on a year in year out basis, but football is a different animal. I would love to see more teams venture out and seek better competition, but with the way things are in this part of the state, I don't see it happening.

The statements that Paladin are making are true, but that doesn't mean that I don't enjoy watching our kids compete. They may not win a state title, but I will continue to follow.

[trojandave]

I'm not quite sure that economic differences play that much of a factor........and here's why I believe that........

Growing up on Waller Street in the late 60's and early 70's, I soon realized why so many African-American kids in Portsmouth were so successful on the basketball court........because they worked their butts off despite many coming from very underprivileged home situations.......it was simply a matter of hard work........no off season trainers, no Life Center, no other perks like we may see today........many didn't even have their own basketball. There were a good number of kids who grew up in Farley Square, so luxuries of anything were virtually non-existent. Playing basketball at Bannon Park and Lincoln School was better than any organized professional training could provide.

The state, regional, and district banners in PHS gymnasium are a testament to what hard work will accomplish even if there are disadvantages in the methodology........basketball at Portsmouth High School has been dominated by the African-American athlete for as long as I can remember, even before I stepped foot in the HS for the first time in 1971. This is impressive despite the African-American population of Portsmouth being only about 6%.

Some of the kids who played on the back to back Final 4 teams of 2011-2012 came from some of the same circumstances that I have referred to above........but yet when it came time to work on their basketball skills, they had the desire and found a way to do what they needed to do.

Obviously this issue/topic is not about race or basketball, but I wanted to point out that in Portsmouth, and the world we live in, many have risen above difficult circumstances and not used adversity as an excuse for failure.

[Paladin]

FINALLY. Been waiting for someone to state the truth. I agree TRojan. This is another poor excuse to cover up the wimp nature of SEO football. I can take you around the state to poor communities and find schools who will kick your butt royally. People have to look in a mirror and own up to their poor prgram. Its not $$$$$$$$. Its not numbers. Its not anything but looking for an easy way out and then play wimp schedules tp get cheap easy wins and makes excuses when the rest of the state whomps your butt in the playoffs.

[yabbadabbadoo]

Numbers play a big part of it. Yes, Dave does make a great statement about in basketball the poor communities can still compete, you have to realize that you only have to have 5-7 good players that gel together to get hot at the right time and they can make a run to the state.

In football, you need, to be really good 11 on offense and another 11 on defense. If you can get that amount of players you can make a strong run in the tourney. I watched 5 of the 6 finals last year and just about every team had only 2-3 players that went both ways, even in the smaller divisions.


As far as the schedule, if they do play a stronger schedule and lose those games, then they don't make the playoffs and what did they get for playing up on the schedule. An azz kicking every game and no playoffs at the end.


By the way, what teams from the poor communities around the state do you think would "royally" kick butt around here? Wheelersburg has played some pretty bad teams from not so great areas of Cincninnati, Dayton and Cleveland and just man-handled them.

[Paladin]

Locally, I can name two, but can go allaround the state and find them. Brookfield is the #1 seed in their region and a poor community. Schools have been in state trouble funding wise for years and the people there are at the low end in our county. Warren Harding, while a famous name is an inner city school with extremly poo parents and a school on Academic Watch. They are #5 seed in Region 1. Then, lots of schools in the Youngstown area. ( 13 schools in the two county area are in). Ditto schools in Akron, Canton, Cleveland, Toledo areas. Shadyside on the river near Steubenville ( extremely poor) and River Local. I could go on.