How will your school vote this time?

[LucasJackson]

It's laughable to think that having the games in Columbus will boost attendance. It will not.

[Bleeding Red]

Not a good analogy, being that they are in the NFL, they are the best of the best. You can only play 11 at a time, so yes they would be on an even playing field.

Thats the problem with high schools, they only have a limited pool from which to draw from. Northwest has a small pool spread out over a large area. Same for most rural schools, urban schools have a larger pool to draw from in a smaller densley populated area.

Its a great analogy. Look at how much talent St Iggy, Moeller, Mentor and the other good D1 schools have just standing on the sideline. Then look at most of the D4-6 schools. A couple injuries here and there and your season is shot. The bigger schools rarely have kids that play both ways. The smaller schools almost always have the same kids playing both ways. The laws of percentages makes the bigger schools consistently better than the smaller schools.

[Westfan]

It's laughable to think that having the games in Columbus will boost attendance. It will not.

I know of at least one. I will gladly drive to Columbus both days. Canton? No

[Westfan]

If it was a fair system, the same private schools would not be good year after year. Coldwater is on quite a run for a public school. But how many public schools even com close to that kind of run? The Ursulines and st. Ignatius' have been good for years to a point where it is an upset when they loose.

[FarAwayFalcon]

It's laughable to think that having the games in Columbus will boost attendance. It will not.

I know of at least one. I will gladly drive to Columbus both days. Canton? No

I will go to game in Columbus regardless who is playing. I will not drive to Canton for a game. I know there are many fans that will make the trip to Columbus to see some good football, just wait and see the numbers will prove it in a few years.

[Ironman88]

With playoff games in Columbus I would go and watch Canton I have to stay all night to enjoy the experience. I believe the shoe is just to big for high school games. Attendance would go up if you split private from public people from public schools love the tradition of home town kids playing for their local school. Wake up vote private schools out on their own and give communities a chance to compete on level field not against teams bought and paid for.

[Dbzshibainu]

How many states do the separate public vs. private state tourneys?

Well New York sort of. They have a Catholic association that plays for their own championship. They have a New York City league that plays for a city championship separate from the state tournament and also the Long Island schools don't participate in the state tournament in football playing for a Long Island championship. So the actual state playoffs are very watered down.

[LucasJackson]

Too many other things to do in Columbus. Yes, you will get casual fans from other places that will come, but Columbus will not draw locally. The locals come out in canton. Also the Columbus "volunteers" won't hold a candle to canton. Meyer won't have the passion for the games that Tressell did and the shoe will be cavarness.
Personally, I'll come to Columbus to watch a game or two but I do. Not see the draw that canton gets from their locals

[fuzzhead]

This is what it really boils down to:

Do you think that private schools have an unfair advantage over public schools? Going deeper, do you think they actively recruit kids to come to their private school because of the kids skill level in sports? Do you think that private schools regulate their enrollment so they can stay in a specific division (in the case of some smaller private schools like Hartley and Ready)?

I think most people would agree that through many loopholes, private schools have a very big advantage over public schools of the same size. Therefore, there needs to be separation between private and public schools in post season play.

I feel like the 2 local private schools, Portsmouth ND and Ironton St Joe, play by the rules and are no threat. But they are not the Hartleys and Mooneys of the private sector that do things to have an unfair advantage. Unfortunately what is good for the goose is good for the gander. You cant pick and choose, only make a decision and stand behind it.

On the flip side, if you put all of the privates into the top 2 divisions, how many private schools that dont recruit will then start doing so to be at least somewhat competitive?

I personally hope it passes. I think it has way more upside than downside.

I think private schools have natural advantage over public schools in ALL facets because of how they're set up and run. I do not think this is unfair. Do they recruit? Of course. As do a lot of public schools. There are ways around the rules.
Do they regulate their enrollment? Of course they do. They are only big enough to effectively teach a certain number of students. For example, if everyone in Lawrence County started going to the schools in Symmes Valley, it would be an inefficient, overcrowded school. Hartley and Ready want to be effective. It's ironic that you mention them, since both of them lost in the playoffs to public schools.
Notre Dame and St. Joe play by the same rules as all the other private schools. There have been kids from all over Scioto County and beyond play for Notre Dame and there have been kids from other districts and even Kentucky play for St. Joe. No, they don't actively recruit because they know it wouldn't make a difference. They aren't as competitive because the talent pool isn't as big around here, plus kids from Ironton want to play for Ironton because they want to win.

[doubleplay643]

Vote them out.

If you look at it from an fairness perspective it is straightforward they have a competitive advantage clearly. Call it what you want ("recruiting, enrollment mgt., pick an item) there are many, but when 18% of the teams that make up the OHSAA win 50% of the championships clearly there is an advantage.

If you look at it from a "profit" OHSAA perspective it seems to me on the surface that it would bring in more dollars to have public schools competing in the finals than private and public. Public communities travel better it is a fact. Private schools the travel is only the immediate family of the players not an entire community. I traveled to Gallipolis this year and Archbishop McNicholas maybe had 150 people there. Went to state finals same thing the public schools clearly brought more travel than the catholic schools and therefore more dollars.

It would be very interresting to see if the catholic schools that "recruit" to help an under-privileged athlete with a scholarship for a better education and experience (and not to compete athletically) would continue their charitable ways or would the scholarships then go to deserving under-privileged kids notwithstanding their athletic acumen. I have watched the "scholarship" process from afar in the Central Catholic League schools and it is driven primarily by athletics than academics. You would think the scholarships would go to deserving students with academic promise not athletic promise but that is usually not the case.

So since they (private or catholic) make up their own rules with little oversight or interference from OHSAA let them make up their own leagues/state championships.

[eagles73Taylor]

You compared NFL teams of 60 versus 200, now your saying large high schools versus small schools. Which is it? lol You cant thump your chest and say if you want to be the best you have to beat the best, when your not playing all of the best teams in the state! I agree that you must have divisions, but get sick of hearing that quote, when there is obviously a discrepency still in how teams are divided.

Mercer county, home of Coldwater has a population of 40,000 people with 7 high schools. The largest is Celina, they have 330 boys, making them D II in football. They have no football state championships, but they are in the same county as Coldwater and St. Henry who have won multiple. They play with the kids who live down the street from teams who win it all, but they cannot. That means there are other factors, Celina playing in a higher division is part of it. Coldwater is a town of 4500 people, but are consistently D V and D IV, they fluctuate. The median family income is $63,000. About 3 % of families live at or below the poverty line. Their school district barely reaches outside the village, a small tail juts out west for about 5 miles. Most of their kids live close to school, come from solid 2 parent households. Does that formula sound familiar? Wheelersburg is similar, thats why you see them winning multiple sports league championships, and some state championships.

Pike county has a population of 30,000 with 4 schools, some kids in PIketon district live 15 miles 1 way from school. 35% living at or below poverty line, median family income of $30,000. These factors matter, but the state doesnt want to hear them!

Not a good analogy, being that they are in the NFL, they are the best of the best. You can only play 11 at a time, so yes they would be on an even playing field.

Thats the problem with high schools, they only have a limited pool from which to draw from. Northwest has a small pool spread out over a large area. Same for most rural schools, urban schools have a larger pool to draw from in a smaller densley populated area.

Its a great analogy. Look at how much talent St Iggy, Moeller, Mentor and the other good D1 schools have just standing on the sideline. Then look at most of the D4-6 schools. A couple injuries here and there and your season is shot. The bigger schools rarely have kids that play both ways. The smaller schools almost always have the same kids playing both ways. The laws of percentages makes the bigger schools consistently better than the smaller schools.

[madpolecat]

Eagles73 is getting at the truth of the matter...

Mytheory is that, public or private, POPULATION DENSITY is a huge factor, I think especially as one works down to D-IV and smaller. Example: Wheelersburg has a good density (smaller geographic area relative to the number of students) and that allows 'Burg to be consistently good.

How big is the attendance area for a school like Northwest? Compared to Ironton who is also D-IV?

[madpolecat]

There are six high schools in Mercer County (home of Coldwater, Marion Local, St. Henry, Celina, Fort Recovery and Parkway Rockford).

The population density of this county with six small schools is 88 per square mile. The population density of Vinton County with one high school is 32 per square mile. The density of Meigs County is 55/square mile.

I don't have the numbers to break it down into what the actual density of the Ironton attendance area is or what that of Northwest is, but I think there is a definite trend. I wonder how the population density of the Gallipolis City Schools attendance area compares to that of the Gallia County Local Schools.

More athletes living within accessible distance of your school = regular success in athletics.

Any easy metric might be to ask how far from home base a school's busses have to travel to reach the farthest kids.

I know that poverty is also a factor, but I would love to know the population densities of disicts in Ohio then compare those numbers to 10 and 20-year records for football.

[eagles73Taylor]

^^^^^ Finally, someone else sees it! lol Of course, its not the only factor, getting a quality coach with good assistants, community support, and strong family support are some other keys. Poverty and population density is a big factor, I ask kids at Piketon all the time in school why they dont play a sport, and more time than not its because they dont have the means to get to practice or games. It can be upwards of a 15 to 20 minute one way drive.

Wheelersburg is a prime example of this scenario. They are the smallest, or 2nd smallest school in the SOC II and they dominate in almost all sports, all the time, They have strong parent and community support. They attract kids from other schools because of their dominance, they have very little travel distance from one part of the district to the other. A high median income community. There is the key, and some schools cannot control almost any of these factors, but yet we are playing on a level playing field! lol

[91blue14]

count me in for a columbus trip but not canton

[Ironman88]

I believe seperate playoffs would make for a better more even competition for both schools public and private. It would create more opportunity for public school kids to compete at the state playoff level without being put out of tounament by a private all star team. The private schools are total dominating the tournament.

[Ironman88]

It's time for a split talk to your school board members let them know how you feel so they will pass it on to the principal on how they should vote.

[implantcat]

Can't see this happening. Check out the board members of the OSHAA..... The majority of them belong to the private shools that have been in the play offs many, many, many times.

[doubleplay643]

Can't see this happening. Check out the board members of the OSHAA..... The majority of them belong to the private shools that have been in the play offs many, many, many times.

Not up to the OHSAA Board Members, it has been petioned, received the 75 Superintendent signatures needed and now will go to a vote amongst all OHSAA member schools. So if you don't want it contact your board member and have him or her relay your thoughts to your school's Supt.

[Iggy25]

This would ruin the state championships. The statement about private schools having weak fan bases is false. I went to a private school and trust me, our fanbase is incredible. Easily 5-7K on average and in big games we get over 10k. Private schools have huge followings. This would kill high school sport championships in Ohio. Did it in NY and it ruined it.