Wahama Leaving TVC ???

[Bighitsinc]

Yep...............Just Sayin.........................

[Orange and Brown]

Yep...............Just Sayin.........................

I agree that RV will fit better in the Hocking for the next few years.
Lets be honest here, RV will finish in the middle of the pack in all sports as a member of the Hocking....In a few years when they have had a chance to build there programs 5hen they can move to the Ohio.
Just sayin................

[mister b]

Lets leave competition or being competitive out of the equation.

Based on numbers (boys enrollment is what the conference uses) RV would be in the middle, size wise, of the TVC Ohio and this is where they were place/agreed to when they petitioned to join the TVC. All members agreed.

TVC Ohio
Athens - 297
Vinton - 271
Meigs - 209
RV - 190
Wellston - 188
Alex - 171
NY - 151

Lets look at the current Hocking numbers, leaving Wahama out of the mix because they are leaving on their own accord, not being forced out as some would lead us to believe.

TVC Hocking
Belpre - 145
FH - 138
Trimble - 107
Miller - 104
S. Gallia - 91
Waterford - 89
Eastern - 87
Southern - 76

Any time you have the situation where the difference from your smallest school to your largest school is nearly double the enrollment (Athens/NY in the Ohio and Belpre/Southern in the Hocking) you are going to have problems.

This doubling is more pronounced in the Ohio then it is in the Hocking from a competition stand point and the proof is Athens winning nearly every conference title, boys and girls, since they came into the TVC. Why? Because numbers do matter. Most of the time. A big city school like Athens is going to be more competitive than a big county school like Vinton because of factors like transportation. There would be more students playing sports at VC if there wasn't this greater distance to schools for practice etc. Also, Athens wins titles in the TVC simply because they can fill out their sports i.e. cross-country boys and girls, track is the same and they can fill all their weight classes in wrestling. Their kids have a much easier time getting to the events, practices and games. Larger rosters usually means greater depth of talent to pull from.

With that said, was it a mistake to let Athens in the TVC? In my opinion no, Athens has helped raise the bar for the other schools in the TVC Ohio and thus has made it a better conference, top to bottom, but they do dominate the TVC Ohio simply because of a sheer numbers advantage and always will. However, there are those who voted in favor of Athens coming into the TVC that wish they could take their vote back simply because they thought Athens wouldn't be as good as they are. Don't worry, they won't get voted out of the TVC nor are they going anywhere on their own.

Putting RV in the Hocking would be a mistake but not as big as letting Athens in. Why, because their district is more spread out, much like VC, then Athens. Also, in the sports such as track, wrestling etc they still won't unseat Athens where 1 champ is crowned and not 2 (Ohio/Hocking) like football etc.

I really don't think RV will get the votes needed to switch from the Ohio to the Hocking simply because the Hocking members won't vote for it because of the numbers. Also, with Wahama looking to leave, this means there will be 8 Hocking members and this makes scheduling so much easier. The TVC made their mistake by not adding another school to come into the Ohio with RV to keep from having an odd number of schools which creates massive scheduling problems. Thank your supers for taking things out of the ADs hands and creating this mess. Supers need to let the ADs handle sports because that is what they are hired to do. Supers need to handle their BOEs and supervise what goes on in the classroom and not the gym. Plus, the supers have enough on their plates and don't need to be out of the district attending TVC meetings...you would think they have enough meetings to attend now.

What is going to happen in the TVC in the near future is anybody's guess. I would venture to say that Wahama will be gone after 1 more year, 2 years tops. Having a WV school in an Ohio conference just doesn't work out and it would be best for everyone if they do leave but I don't think there are any other problems with them other than the scheduling quirks. RV comes in to the Ohio as planned. They may not like it but they agreed to it and in the long run they will be no worse for wear because of it. No school from the Hocking will move up and no school from the Ohio will move down. I would be surprised if the TVC has or invites another school to join. They missed their chance with Warren, Jackson etc. But, I wouldn't be surprised to see a new conference (name it what you like) formed with some members of the SEOAL and some members of the TVC Ohio in it within the next 5 years. In fact, my suggestion would be for the SEOAL and the TVC to merge into 1 conference and go to the POD system like the LKC is doing and is mentioned in the News and Sentinel stories. By doing this merger/POD system you can truely setup a more competitve conference based on numbers AND location and have meaningful inter-conference crossover games that count toward the standings. However, as long as the supers are involved, I doubt this will ever happen.

Just my thoughts.

[93Bulldog]

Lets be honest here, RV will finish in the middle of the pack in all sports as a member of the Hocking

Probably about right ... they would do a little better in basketball, and maybe with some more wins, could enhance their seeding every post season ... River Valley has been going into the draw with 2, 3 maybe 4 wins each year and are stuck having to play the No. 1 or No. 2 seed ... if they could get up into at least the middle of the pack somewhere, they would have a chance at possibly winning a game and making the Convo. (just like a 9-11 Meigs team did this year)

As far as football:
River Valley played Southern in the fall. The Tornadoes were a 5th place team in the Hocking and finished the season (4-6). River Valley beat them 13-12.
In 2011 River Valley played Federal Hocking. The Lancers were a 5th place team that also finished (4-6). River Valley beat them 13-12 as well.

* one point games against 'middle of the pack' teams in the Hocking Division is even more proof that RV belongs in that league right now.

[93Bulldog]

Mister B ... from 1992-2001 and 2004-2008 ... Athens lost to everyone, including TVC teams ... they may have had more students, but that didn't keep NY from kicking the crap out of them every year on the football field ...

My point is, Athens isn't some sort of athletic power house - it has proven time and time again that it will go through a 'down cycle' just like any other small school in southeastern Ohio.

[93Bulldog]

Athens being 'dominant'

since 2008 when Athens joined the TVC.

Nelsonville-York has won or shared 3 Ohio titles, Athens has won or shared 3 Ohio titles in football.
Vinton County has won or shared 4 Ohio titles, Athens has only 2 in boys basketball.
Alexander has won 4 volleyball titles, Athens has only 2.
Alexander has won 3 girls basketball titles, Athens has 2.

Athens hasn't dominated any of the major sports since joining the TVC in terms of winning league championships. (unless you add baseball)

[noreply66]

Athens being 'dominant'

since 2008 when Athens joined the TVC.

Nelsonville-York has won or shared 3 Ohio titles, Athens has won or shared 3 Ohio titles in football.
Vinton County has won or shared 4 Ohio titles, Athens has only 2 in boys basketball.
Alexander has won 4 volleyball titles, Athens has only 2.
Alexander has won 3 girls basketball titles, Athens has 2.

Athens hasn't dominated any of the major sports since joining the TVC in terms of winning league championships. (unless you add baseball)

You mention Athens in four sports here and NY in one,Vinton Cty in one and Alexander in two.Out of those four teams and four sports, Athens has been at the top 9 times, Alexander 7, Vinton Cty,four and Nelson/York three. On the boys side Athens might have won four track titles and the girls three. Now with those five sports and baseball and softball that probably puts Athens over 20 championships with Alexander being 2nd with around 10. In five years Athens has double the 2nd highest team. Athens doesn't win all the titles but no other team finishes near the top in every sport like Athens does. Not complaining just putting a few stats out there.

[93Bulldog]

I won't argue with that noreply ... but the last few years - Athens has had its best group of athletes that I have seen in nearly 25+ years ... to have that kind of talent (which I'm 100% positive will not last) and still not own the most football or basketball titles speaks volume ... The TVC is a little better than what outsiders give it crefit for - and Athens isn't as dominate as some would like to believe ... its somewhere in between.

[NYBuckeye96]

For 40 years (counting pre-consolidations), you had this as the SEOAL:

Athens
Gallia Academy
Jackson
Logan
Meigs
Nelsonville-York
Wellston

All of those schools have history with each other. It would make sense to have a conference with pods/divisions involving those schools and adding a few others from the current SEOAL and TVC OHIO and create a conference with two divisions.

I wouldn't create the conference like the TVC OHIO and HOCKING because they function essentially as seperate conferences. I would create the divisions so they had interaction with each other in all sports. For example, in basketball, all teams would play all teams in their division twice and would play all teams in the other division once as conference games. The same with volleyball, baseball, etc. etc. It wouldn't be practical to do this in football, but it certainly would be practical in every other sport.

It also makes sense geographically and with gas prices and cuts in school funding from the state, that is more or less what it boils down to. These geographic matchups would produce big gates $$ as well.

[93Bulldog]

Logan is a Division I team in all sports except football - no way would they go for it ... and when they do get their football program back on track - no way would they play DIV and DV teams on a regular basis.

Take out Logan ... and add Vinton County ... and you may be on to something.

[93Bulldog]

if I were in charge ... my new TVC would look like this ... divisions based on all the other sports besides football

TVC - I

1. Athens - DII
2. Vinton County - DII
3. Gallia - DII
4. Jackson - DII
5. Warren - DII
6. Nelsonville-York - DIII

TVC - II

1. Meigs - DIII
2. Wellston - DIII
3. Alexander - DIII
4. River Valley - DIII
5. Federal Hocking - DIII
6. Belpre - DIII

TVC - III

1. Trimble - DIV
2. Eastern - DIV
3. Southern - DIV
4. Waterford - DIV
5. Miller - DIV
6. South Gallia - DIV

* The SIX team league gives you flexibility in your football scheduling ... AD's and coaches have an idea how good their football teams are going to be ... if you feel you will be pretty good and talented for a few years - go out and schedule tough teams for your 5 non-league games ... if not - go the other way ...

[Dundas]

If I were in charge, the TVC Ohio and Hocking would first and foremost vote ONLY for changes in their OWN division, unless it were a vote to move a team up or down between the two. Other than that, cut ties! With that said...my TVC Ohio would be..

Athens
Alexander
Jackson
Meigs
NY
River Valley
Vinton County
Wellston

I doubt this would ever happen. But if it were up to me, this would be my choice.

[Dundas]

This won't happen either because of Athens satisfaction in the TVC.. but if they were to jump back to the SEOAL, it would work perfectly with the level of play they are consistently putting on the fields/courts.

SEOAL

Athens
Gallia Academy
Jackson
Logan
Portsmouth
Warren

[mister b]

Mister B ... from 1992-2001 and 2004-2008 ... Athens lost to everyone, including TVC teams ... they may have had more students, but that didn't keep NY from kicking the crap out of them every year on the football field ...

My point is, Athens isn't some sort of athletic power house - it has proven time and time again that it will go through a 'down cycle' just like any other small school in southeastern Ohio.

Is Athens an athletic powerhouse in terms of state wide or even SE Ohio? No.

Are they an athletic powerhouse in terms of the TVC Ohio? Yes. The proof is that they have won double the number of conference titles than the next closest team and this bothers more than a few coaches and ADs from the other TVC Ohio schools.

Will Athens win football and boys basketball titles every year? Nope, but they will take home more conference titles in ALL sports combined every year then the other schools and should double up the number of titles each year than the next closet team. That is domination and you have to take into account all sports, boys and girls. They simply have the advantage in sheer numbers and numbers count in sports like track, cross-country, wrestling etc.

As I have said before, Athens in the TVC Ohio has helped raise the bar for all the other TVC Ohio teams AND it has helped Athens turn their sports programs around. Success breeds success. Kids want to play on or in a winning program.

Back to the overall TVC picture.

The best thing for all the teams is a complete merger of the SEOAL and TVC (Ohio and HOcking) into 1 conference with a commissioneer/assigner using the POD system based on competitiveness AND demographics.

Just my thoughts

[93Bulldog]

With track, cross country and wrestling ... how much emphasis is actually put on a 'team' championship anyways ... those are more individual driven and the athlete can still win even though the team may not ... I have no idea who won the "league championship" in wrestling last year - but I know the kid from Nelsonville-York won a state title. Most of the athletes in those sports are training hard for their event - with the goal of advancing at the district, regional and hopefully the state level ... 'team' championships is probably not even the primary goal for many of them.

[Orange and Brown]

With track, cross country and wrestling ... how much emphasis is actually put on a 'team' championship anyways ... those are more individual driven and the athlete can still win even though the team may not ... I have no idea who won the "league championship" in wrestling last year - but I know the kid from Nelsonville-York won a state title. Most of the athletes in those sports are training hard for their event - with the goal of advancing at the district, regional and hopefully the state level ... 'team' championships is probably not even the primary goal for many of them.

Make that 2 state titles lol

[Orange and Brown]

I wanted to add about numbers.......

Numbers do matter, When you are a big school you typically have 4 or 5 kids competing at each position. At smaller schools you have 2 or 3, and at times they have 1 pony and they are gonna ride him till he breaks. There are exceptions, NY has great depth for a D-5 school, and some coaches (see Trimble) are able to adjust to there talent level.
Athens wins the TVC in Wrestling by default. NY has the best wrestling program in the TVC
but they can't fill all the weight classes. Athens wins the team title in track because they have numbers, but they also have a great track program....Athens has a great Baseball tradition and thats not going to change. Alexander will play neck a neck with Athens on the Diamond every year.

With all that being said.................
Numbers arent the be all end all.
NY is the smallest school in the TVC-OHIO and they have dominated in football, why? COACHING!
Until recently NY has been celler dwellers in basketball, and they are awful when it comes to Baseball and Softball.
But they have seen success in Track over the last few years and Basketball, wrestling, Volleyball, golf ect........
This is happening i part because Athens is pushing them to get better.
I'll take Athens and there numbers in the TVC anyday.....Athens vs Alex and Athens vs NY are bringing in huge gates and for the most part very competitive in all sports.

[mister b]

With track, cross country and wrestling ... how much emphasis is actually put on a 'team' championship anyways ... those are more individual driven and the athlete can still win even though the team may not ... I have no idea who won the "league championship" in wrestling last year - but I know the kid from Nelsonville-York won a state title. Most of the athletes in those sports are training hard for their event - with the goal of advancing at the district, regional and hopefully the state level ... 'team' championships is probably not even the primary goal for many of them.

No idea who won the TVC wrestling title last year? I believe it was Athens and I think this year made it 5 in a row for them.

Bulldog93, you do a great job at promoting the TVC with your website. The TVC should pay you for your work. At the very least, they should fund the cost of your website because you do a great service for the kids and the schools and never receive any credit. My hat is off to you.

However, there is more to sports than football and basketball. (I know you can't give coverage to every sport I don't think anyone expects you to) Even the so called "individual" sports like track, cross-country and wrestling are still a team sport. The difference is that an individual can advance even though a team can't. The team trophies in these sports still count towards the all important "All Sports" trophy that all the ADs/coaches and players strive to win.

Merging the SEOAL and TVC into one conference, big schools and small schools, breaking them out into PODS would allow for greater competition and more chances to win a title because than the smaller schools would have a better chance at winning if it was broken down into large and small school titles even in the "individual" sports. Plus, a merger would give the larger schools like Athens a chance to win titles in soccer and tennis which they don't have now since they came into the TVC because how many schools field teams in these sports? Not enough for the TVC to name a champion. Also, merging the 2 conferences would increase competition and better prepare all the teams for post season play in every sport. There is proof that since Athens came into the TVC, TVC Ohio teams are better prepared for post season play.

Again, just my thoughts.

[93Bulldog]

A merged league would be fine with me ... Athens already plays a 'merged schedule' ... lol ... they play Jackson, Gallia, Warren in football ... and they play Gallia, Jackson, Warren, Logan in basketball and baseball.

and thanks for the comments made about the web site Mister B ...

[coach k]

93Bulldog,

Based off of your post, I'm not convinced you know much about the dynamics of a cross country team. It may be too early in the morning since you will be recovering from football Friday night, but I invite you to come to Lake Snowden on Saturday morning, October 12 to watch the TVC cross country meet. After watching the meet, let me know if you see any teams who "actually put an emphasis on a 'team' championship".