Will the SEOAL survive other league expansion?

[NYBuckeye96]

NYBuckeye96,
You seem to know whats goin on.. what do you think will happen to Marietta and Warren and if they do leave when do you think they will? It would be weird, not to make the trip to Washington County anymore

I only know things because I have connections at other schools that I consider very reliable sources for information. Whenever I report on something on a chat site, I always hold off until its pretty much a done deal. Otherwise, I just try to debate the merits of the advantages and disadvantages for things like league changes.

Marietta has already applied to join the ECOL. The ECOL Commissioner is even on record as saying he has an application from a 9th school (although he did not name the school for the media), and they are waiting for a 10th school to join at the same time to create an even number of teams in each of the new divisions in the ECOL. My sources tell me that Marietta is, in fact, the school that has applied to join the ECOL.

There seems to be no question that the ECOL will approve Marietta. The delay is simply waiting until a 10th school is added. There could even be up to three more additional schools added in addition to Marietta.

The ultimate goal of the ECOL expansion is to create a 12 team league with 2 divisions of 6 teams each. Right now, with the addition of Zanesville, they have two divisions of 4 teams each, plus an application from Marietta to join the league that is "sitting on the ECOL's commissioners desk" waiting to be voted on.

Now having said all of the facts, this is what I think we will see happen........

Within the next 3-4 months, Marietta will be approved to join the ECOL as a member of the big school division, along with Zanesville, Dover, Cambridge, and New Philadelphia.

There are still debates on who will be added to the small-school division. Several schools are considering applying, but as of now, none of them have applied. Marietta is the only school with an application to join the ECOL that has yet to be acted on, and I see a vote coming in 3-4 months at the latest, maybe even by the end of this year.

Based on everything that is happening in the ECOL, and the fact that Marietta has already applied to join, I think it is a done deal that Marietta will be in the ECOL.

I also think that Warren will continue to look for possibilities outside of the SEOAL. With Marietta joining the ECOL, Warren will have even more incentive to leave the SEOAL. When Marietta leaves, Warren will no longer have any local schools in its league and every league game will be a long drive.

Concerning Warren.......I don't see things being as certain as the situation at Marietta. This is what I do know.......Warren wants in the TVC. Warren applied about a year or so ago, and almost had the votes to get in. However, the TVC has changed dramatically since the last Warren vote. When Warren tried to join, Athens had just joined to create a 7 team TVC OHIO, along with a 6 team TVC HOCKING. Since then, South Gallia and Wahama have joined as members of the Hocking and Belpre has moved down to the Hocking. This has created a mismatch in the TVC: a 6 team TVC OHIO and a 9 team TVC HOCKING. When Warren applied previously - there was no need at that time to add a larger school. Since then, two small schools have been added AND the smallest TVC OHIO school has moved down to the Hocking. Now, all of a sudden, there is a need to add TVC OHIO-size schools. This could be schools as large as Warren or as small as a River Valley.

I also think that the TVC will have a debate on the merits of expanding to three divisions or remaining at two divisions. I don't know how that debate will turn out, but I think it's inevitable that that debate will happen.

Warren doesn't have a lot of other options outside of the TVC. The MVL would be a good fit for them, but I don't think they would have the votes to be admitted to the MVL. Some MVL schools hate driving to Morgan, and Warren would be an even further drive for them. Also, the MVL already has an 8 game league schedule in football. Adding one more league school would mean each MVL team would only have 1 non-league game. There is absolutely no interest in the MVL to create two divisions. Those schools all like playing each other. Even D5 Crooksville is opposed to creating a large school and small school division.

The only other option I even see possible for Warren would be for Warren to also apply to the ECOL. I do not know if that is even something Warren is considering or not. Those would create long drives like in the SEOAL, but they would all be interstate travel for the most part. Also, I do not know if the ECOL is interested in Warren or not, but the ECOL is definately interested in expanding.

I think the most likely scenerio, if Warren were to leave the SEOAL, would be for Warren to re-join the TVC, where they were league members from 1969-1986. I think that the addition of Athens to the TVC has opened the door for at least one more school that is about the size of Athens to join the league. And with the recent changes in the TVC, the TVC needs to add at least one more larger school to balance out the number of smaller schools in the league in the newly expanded TVC Hocking.

If the Washington County schools leave the SEOAL, all of a sudden, those remaining in the SEOAL do not have long drives to league games, with the exception of Portsmouth to Logan.

If you have a SEOAL of Logan, Chillicothe, Jackson, Gallia Academy, and Portsmouth, that greatly reduces travel time for all schools involved.

[wowhesfast]

With the league being as small as five teams, that means that everyone would have to expand their non league schedules by about two games, rendering them with a small conference commitment. As a Logan fan, I see it as a way to improve our schedule and push towards an eventual OCC membership (when that league expands to 50+ schools). Logan could set up a non league schedule that would Ideally include:

Lancaster
Pick North
Hamiliton Township
Zanesville
Potentially Pick Cent, Canal, DeSales, St. Charles, Tri-Valley, or anybody else who would willingly enter our house of pain.

Playing four conference games allows great early season potential immense potential.

It's nice to see you TVC folks care so much about the Health of our league, but with what, fifteen, sixteen schools, ya'll really need to come up with atleast another division, and be prepared to get a fourth going. Forgive me, I am a young person, but I seen to remember you had three some years ago? Three even fits the name of your League better, you might as well been callin yourselves the Bi-Valley Conference.

[pappy1]

With the league being as small as five teams, that means that everyone would have to expand their non league schedules by about two games, rendering them with a small conference commitment. As a Logan fan, I see it as a way to improve our schedule and push towards an eventual OCC membership (when that league expands to 50+ schools). Logan could set up a non league schedule that would Ideally include:

Lancaster
Pick North
Hamiliton Township
Zanesville
Potentially Pick Cent, Canal, DeSales, St. Charles, Tri-Valley, or anybody else who would willingly enter our house of pain.

Playing four conference games allows great early season potential immense potential.

It's nice to see you TVC folks care so much about the Health of our league, but with what, fifteen, sixteen schools, ya'll really need to come up with atleast another division, and be prepared to get a fourth going. Forgive me, I am a young person, but I seen to remember you had three some years ago? Three even fits the name of your League better, you might as well been callin yourselves the Bi-Valley Conference.

I think there are teams in your 'potentially' list that may inflict the pain in your house.
Having said that, scheduling some of these teams will make you better and give your program a chance to compete at the state level. If you want to get better, schedule better.

With todays economy, I think it would be a good idea to put economics at the forefront of scheduling high school athletics. It makes no sense to have a schedule that keeps the buses on the road for long hours and shrinks the take at the gate.

[Dundas]

The Tri-Valley Conference has never had 3 divisions. It started as one whole conference and split into 2 divisions in the early 90's. Sure, 3 Divisions does fit the name better (Tri=3)...but i think when the conference was created it was called that because of where its located..not nessesarily because the creating schools had intentions of 3 seperate divisions.

[loganlocos]

Marietta to the ECOL is not a done deal by any means. While it makes sense for both Marietta and the ECOL, there are still some I's to be dotted and T's to be crossed.

Marietta has some more hurdles before joining the ECOL based on some info that I have received.

[dazed&confused]

Would a smaller, more concentrated SEOAL be all that bad?

[85inside]

What's all that special about Marietta? I mean here we have another story of an existing SEOAL member who voted for the expansion to ten schools and now appears to want to leave the SEOAL.

I'm wondering out loud if the travel distances and times are any different for the Portsmouths, Chillicothes, and Gallia Academys of the league TO Marietta as they are when Marietta has to travel?

Marietta has a 24 year history with the SEOAL and if those existing rivalries dont produce the gates and revenues to support their athletic programs, what makes them think moving to a league with few if any historical ties will? I understand Portsmouth had more people in Marietta last Friday than the homestanding Tigers did. If that's the case then I'm sure GAHS will do the same next Friday which means other league schools are supporting the Tiger gates more than Tiger fans are. What's up with that?

Someone even mentioned the trip down Rt 7; no doubt aimed at Gallia Academy. Well, I'm no fan of that trip myself; not because of the time/distance, but rather the suicidal deer populations long that road.

I sincerely hope both Washington County schools stay in a league that has been as good for them as they have been for the league. Both have very long, proud athletic traditions across the board and the SEOAL has provided a stage for them to enrich their trophy cases, both in individual sports and the All-Sports trophy.

No offense to the Trojans, but if they had more people in attendance than Marietta did, there must have been less than 300 in attendance. Thats sad.

[Trojan_FB_Alum]

The Trojans did have more in attendance then the Tigers. I have to say I think the Trojan's fans traveled very well to take on an opponent with a poor record that was over 2 hours away. There was probably under 1000 people total, for both sides. Last year when we had a poor record, and are attendance wasn't much better.

[distance40]

Marietta's attendance has been down I am not arguing that, but I don't care what team it is, its hard to fill up the stands with a 1 and 8 football team on a cold, wet night. Good thing that team is young, will be interesting how they do this week and next season. I bet they get a much better attendance this week

[biggdowgg]

we had a lot more fans then I thought we would have for the weather,and distance,.

I understand another team from down river went there last year, or year before,and diddnt even take 50 fans with them .

but you have your true fans, that wil go no matter what.

[distance40]

gahs4ever,
I am not saying that GAH isn't doing fine they are doing pretty good. Any team needs support, no matter the record in my opinion. However a losing record isn't a first time thing for Marietta, its happened alot the last few years and that is even hard on the strongest of fans. But Marietta I think will have a much better attendance this week.

[trojandave]

Portsmouth is not looking to go independent.......we have applied to the SOC on several occasions, and each time have been turned away.........as far as I know PHS will stay in the SEOAL, and with Zanesville already having left and Marietta seriously looking to exit, those are two less long road trips for our teams.......which would strengthen PHS's feelings about staying in the SEOAL. Our football team has done well in league play 2 of the last 3 years, so it's not like Portsmouth is a perennial doormat. I firmly believe that the Trojans could very well win the league next year with such a veteran team returning.

As I have said many times about this topic, I am proud to have my alma mater Portsmouth as a member of the SEOAL, and the league is good for us.......and we are good for the league.

Geographically the SOC is more friendly for Portsmouth's athletic teams, but competitive wise the SEOAL offers more........I personally want PHS to stay in the SEOAL.......no doubt at some point PHS will once again apply to the SOC, and once again will be turned down........and we will stay in the SEOAL as a result.......we were independent for 11 years after the OKAC folded........and it was a scheduling nightmare for most sports.

[loganlocos]

DAVE -

I think the Trojans have proven two of the last 4 years that they can be contenders in the SEOAL. In 2007 and 2009 the Trojans will finish with a winning record in the league. And I agree they will be the favorite entering 2010.

I think Portsmouth is a great fit in the SEOAL, and with one of the worst drives for the Scioto Countians possibly leaving the SEAOL, I hope it will make the remaining members that much more commited.

[ChillSoftball]

Don't mean to throw another rumor in the mix but how about Chillicothe? I know that we have, at least inquired, at the possibility of joining the MSL. It would be good for Chillicothe on all levels. Now, if Marietta and Warren drop out then it pays (literally) for Chillicothe to stay in the SEOAL. Just a thought.

[Blue_nd_Gray]

gahs4ever,
I am not saying that GAH isn't doing fine they are doing pretty good. Any team needs support, no matter the record in my opinion. However a losing record isn't a first time thing for Marietta, its happened alot the last few years and that is even hard on the strongest of fans. But Marietta I think will have a much better attendance this week.

A few years of 1-8 will discourage fans much more. GA hasn't been competitive in the SEOAL in BB or Football for a few years now, I don't see that changing.

[dazed&confused]

Well, since this is on the football forum, I think most posters look at this issue from a football standpoint. In that light, if you are not competitive in football regularly, it casts a pall on how your AD may look at a conference. Football generates the money (along with basketball to a lesser degree) that funds the other sports. GAHS will be competitive in football soon; it's ridiculous to think otherwise. They will be fine. But I look at Marietta and Warren and other than each other, their games are far away and fans will travel moreso closer to home. It is increasingly more about the money. Add to that the unseady price of gas and the overall economy and you find that people are less willing to travel and spend for HS football games. Throw in several rainy Friday nights in a row and you find lots of empty seats. Heck, for that matter, I'd say that is affecting pro sports in small markets where more fans have to travel several hours to see their teams. So I don't really blame Ironton for leaving the league or for Marietta and Warren to look at other possibilities. It is not strictly about competiveness. It is about the bottom line and that can only make the traditionalists sad. However, a smaller, more compact SEOAL just might make sense.

[pappy1]

The first consideration for an AD and superintendent is financial. This usually means travel cost and gate receipts.

As far as competition, what is your number one goal?
Is it to win some games?
Is it to win a league?
Is it to make the playoffs?

My choice would be to play tough competition and bring your play to a level where you can consistently win.

If you make the playoffs, are you happy to be there, or are you there to win?

There will be many teams playing next week who are just happy to be there and there will be teams who have a goal to win it all.
When one of each play each other, many times its a blowout.

Amanda is a good team to examine. If you are not familiar with their playoff history, they had a difficult time winning in the playoffs with their first few attempts. They learned what it took and brought their level of play up to the point that they have been state champs.

[wowhesfast]

I made a promise last night that I wouldn't post anymore on the Ironton @ Warren but all this stuff about SEOAL schools not travelling well being said on there is simply not true.



Logan at Ironton. Clearly the away side is not empty. I, along with many other Logan fans sat on the Ironton side. There were many others standing around the fence. Remember, this was a game where the weather was absolutely terrible, but could have been worse.



I can't say the same for Chilli but they are in an off year, and its a long drive.

My biggest beef with Ironton fans is that they rarely check their facts, as this is the third time this week that I have corrected an Ironton poster, and then they say we disrespect them. I have little respect for someone who tries to pass opinion as facts, or someone who puts half truths or flat lies and tries to pass them as facts.
Pictures irontonfootball.com.

[loganlocos]

I made a promise last night that I wouldn't post anymore on the Ironton @ Warren but all this stuff about SEOAL schools not travelling well being said on there is simply not true.



Logan at Ironton. Clearly the away side is not empty. I, along with many other Logan fans sat on the Ironton side. There were many others standing around the fence. Remember, this was a game where the weather was absolutely terrible, but could have been worse.

I count nearly 100 people from Logan in that picture alone. I know I sat on the opposite side of the press box and there were at least than many people on that side.

I would guess that Logan brought every bit of 300 people. Which would be 3 times the amount Ironton brought to Logan over the 2 years they came up combined. Considering the drive and the weather, I think its a pretty darn good crowd.

And before you bring up the "for a school our size" argument - let's look at communities: Ironton has a population of over 11,000 people and Lawrence County has 62,500.

By comparison, Logan's population is fewer than 7,500 and Hocking County is fewer than 30,000.

So while the Logan may have a larger school, Ironton has an OVERWHELMING larger community and thus fan base to draw from.

[dazed&confused]

It is what it is. I stated on an earlier post that Logan brought more than 100 fans. Heck, Locos saw me and my family there and we had almost 20 alone. BUT, we can't put ourselves in the place of whoever made the decision for Ironton to leave the conference. I'll side with Ironton that Logan should play teams closer to their own size, if only to enhance their playoff potential. I hope this move works out for Ironton because if it doesn't, there won't be an option to return anytime soon to the SEOAL. And I'm sure they took that into consideration. I'll leave it to other Logan posters to puff out their chest and deride Ironton for leaving. That's your choice. All I'll say is good luck to the Tigers and I hope they wish the same to us. This chapter is closed.