Logan Vs Shadyside

[Logangrad]

And for the record I have ties to Logan and I have never ragged on another school. And I dont agree Logan runs from competition but it makes no sense to schedule teams that are just going to throttle you when you cant compete just to satisfy the masses who think you have a weak schedule.

[Blackjack]

I agree with Logan Grad. Well said.

[1987chieftains]

Well said grad.

[Raiderball]

Shadyside might be a smaller school but you won't see a IV-V-Vi -VII in seo schedule them.

Last week somewhere on here I brought up........... will there be a summer shocker for Logan..........guess someone is throwing it out there.

Not 100% certain but I've heard another SE Ohio school may be playing Shadyside this fall. Haven't seen anything official yet so that's all I will say about it.

[Paladin]

Its humorous to read the chickensh!ts who are jealous of the Chiefs . As 2old used to say, they suffer from Chieftain envy. Logan stayed with the SEOAL for decades, often as a smaller school and yet also as a larger school as others shrank in size. But one fact remains, no matter how big or small Logan was in the SEOAL, they still managed to win more SEOAL titles than anyone in the history of the league. In putting their schedules together, they had OCC D-I schools, state ranked smaller powerhouses and still opt to schedule Catholic schools like Columbus DeSales. Logan plays anyone.

The reality for most of SEO is quite the opposite. Running from competition, no matter the size, has been going on for decades for much of SEO. The rest of the state recognizes that. Yet If you are bigger, smaller and tough or Catholic, Logan will play you. Its good for the world to see the rest of the real SEO................................................ shameful as it is

[Logangrad]

2015

Aug. 28: at Athens, 7:30

Sept. 4: Teays Valley

Sept. 11: Meigs

Sept. 18: Cambridge

Sept. 25: at Nelsonville-York, 7:30

Oct. 2: at Shadyside

Oct. 9: Jackson*

Oct. 16: at Col. DeSales

Oct. 23: at Gallipolis*

Oct. 30: Warren*

2016

Aug. 26: open

Sept. 2: at Teays Valley

Sept. 9: at Meigs, 7:30

Sept. 16: at Cambridge

Sept. 23: Nelsonville-York

Sept. 30: Athens

Oct. 7: at Jackson*

Oct. 14: Col. DeSales

Oct. 21: open

Oct. 28: at Warren*

*—Southeastern Ohio Athletic League games

[Raider6309]

Shadyside might be a smaller school but you won't see a IV-V-Vi -VII in seo schedule them.

Last week somewhere on here I brought up........... will there be a summer shocker for Logan..........guess someone is throwing it out there.

DV River Valley is playing Shadyside

[OVCFan2]

We love to talk about the size of schools down here in SEO.... However, please look at the fact just cause Logan is D2 doesn't necessarily mean that the population that goes to Logan is D2. Some kids go to Tri- county, Nelsonville, or even Berne Union. Only school in the county is different then being a Columbus suburb D2... But I would hate to interrupt the Logan hate that stays consistent on this forum.

Actually, the fact that Logan is D2 means EXACTLY that Logan's ENROLLMENT is D2-level. Kids that go elsewhere don't count in the number that determines the division size. A career center (if that is what "Tri-county" is) works the same way everywhere; kids still play sports at their home school.

Logan is a rural school, I get it. But so is every other school in Southeastern Ohio. They have most of the same challenges, Logan just happens to be significantly bigger and so...size still matters.

That alone probably wouldn't be prominently discussed if not for the seemingly constant trash talking about how [everybody but Logan] runs from competition. Logan is the absolute worst example of "big fish, small pond" in the area (and maybe the whole state), yet those few people (who happen to be tied to Logan) are constantly ragging on other schools.

I get tired of hearing this argument about Logan. Logan is the only high school in Hocking County, one of only three in the entire state, that have that distinction. But most kids that are counted for Logan do go to Tri County. And because Logan is the only school in the county they suffer because they are counted in that way. Logan had 40 kids on their varsity football team last year. 40. Logan is a d2/d1 school with D3 talent. We arent the city league or the CCL. We get penalized for being the only school in the county because most kids that go to school at Logan dont play sports. They live miles outside of the school on winding roads and parents dont want to make several trips in and out to pick kids up. As a former coach I know for a fact this to be true. We had several kids who would of been all league players in football but were told in the summer they had to farm or work or help out at home and the drive in is just too far. Logan is D2 on enrollment only. I could better sit with the BIG SCHOOL DOMINATING theory if they had 75-80 kids year in and year out on the team but they just dont.
The only reason size matters in this case is because we have more kids living in the same area but not necessarily going out for sports. And then at the end of a season Logan is forced to play in the Central District against much larger and much more athletic teams. Logan cannot compete in the Central District. They never have. History has shown that. Do I think in years past when Logan had great classes that they scheduled better competition to help better prepare them for a playoff run? Heck yes. Are those classes few and far between? Heck yes. Logan is now learning to schedule teams they can compete with but in this case with Shadyside Logan needed a game. The league is dying, teams are full, and we needed a game. We need two more games for 2016. It is what it is. But arguing that Logan is in someway trying to schedule down just to be a big school bully is not accurate. If we had the numbers Lancaster has year in and year out and we did that I would say well maybe but in this day and age Logan is trying to fill the void of a dying league.

AMEN!!!

[enigmaax]

We get penalized for being the only school in the county because most kids that go to school at Logan dont play sports. They live miles outside of the school on winding roads and parents dont want to make several trips in and out to pick kids up.

I understand this, but it happens at EVERY rural school. The difference is, when you get a couple of athletes who don't go out for football, you still have several hundred kids to try and replace them. The smaller the school, the less likely that there will be adequate replacements sitting around. Go to any high school in the area and you'll hear about how this kid or that kid should've played a certain sport. You just have a bigger pool to find someone else at Logan.

Logan cannot compete in the Central District. They never have. History has shown that. Do I think in years past when Logan had great classes that they scheduled better competition to help better prepare them for a playoff run? Heck yes. Are those classes few and far between? Heck yes.

Again, a fair point that highlights exactly what I'm saying. Logan can't compete where it actually should be competing, so they play down. Insert any other name into that sentence. If it is called "running from competition" one place, it is called running from competition for everyone.

And for the record I have ties to Logan and I have never ragged on another school. And I dont agree Logan runs from competition but it makes no sense to schedule teams that are just going to throttle you when you cant compete just to satisfy the masses who think you have a weak schedule.

Your last statement is exactly what you and I agree on. It is called doing what is best for your kids. But again, it applies to everyone. It cannot be pretended that Logan is some take-on-all-comers brute when there's an acknowledgement that they don't play where they should be playing and when there's all kinds of silly excuses being made as to why they aren't as big as it appears (when those same caveats apply to every school). If it could just be left at, "every school should do what is best to put their own kids in a position to compete," then we wouldn't have to point out any of the schools who have to find softer competition to look good.

[Logangrad]

I guess you're missing my points

Logan isn't competing in the central district bc most years they just can't and that's not at all where they should be competing. They should be in the SE District D2 with Warren VC Athens Logan Elm etc. That's their wheelhouse. Not Lancaster Dublin Hillard Grove City.


And again there is a huge misconception about pulling from a larger pool. Yes we have a lot of kids in the area but like I've said that doesn't mean those kids can want or would play sports. You can't pull from a pool when you don't have swimmers.

[Logangrad]

And I know that Logan doesn't schedule down to look good. They schedule now to fill games with teams they can compete with a few central district teams to get ready for post season if possible and now whoever is a good fit bc the league is dying and you have to find opponents. Again these are my own opinions and I don't know what the admins think but you can see it and I know they are struggling to fill open dates. But they're not going to schedule Ignatius to prove a point based on their numbers bc people really have the wrong opinion of what's real and what's assumed in their own minds from the outside looking in.

[1987chieftains]

And I know that Logan doesn't schedule down to look good. They schedule now to fill games with teams they can compete with a few central district teams to get ready for post season if possible and now whoever is a good fit bc the league is dying and you have to find opponents. Again these are my own opinions and I don't know what the admins think but you can see it and I know they are struggling to fill open dates. But they're not going to schedule Ignatius to prove a point based on their numbers bc people really have the wrong opinion of what's real and what's assumed in their own minds from the outside looking in.

GOOD POINT GRAD! ive said this a few times now, logan is a 1 county district. for an easy example look at athens. 5 high schools in 1 county....... athen, nelsonville, trimble, alexander and fed hock. if those would be consolidated into a 1 county high school. giving them an enrollment of about 2291. athens would be in worse shape then logan because they WOULD be DI. then everyone could say " big fish little pond, scheduling down, etc.... athens wouldnt really be able to efford for gas to travel to c-bus just to play school theyre own size.

[enigmaax]

Logan isn't competing in the central district bc most years they just can't and that's not at all where they should be competing. They should be in the SE District D2 with Warren VC Athens Logan Elm etc. That's their wheelhouse. Not Lancaster Dublin Hillard Grove City.

And again there is a huge misconception about pulling from a larger pool. Yes we have a lot of kids in the area but like I've said that doesn't mean those kids can want or would play sports. You can't pull from a pool when you don't have swimmers.

Warren is a D4 football school. There is no real "town" that we pull from. Two of the elementary schools (and homes that send their kids there) are as close or closer to Marietta or Belpre High Schools. A ton of youth sports programs lose kids to Marietta, Belpre, and even Federal Hocking. Then some of them don't play when they get to high school for various reasons, not the least of which is that they haven't been immersed in the Warren scene (i.e., they aren't friends with the kids who have played closer to the high school all these years.) I know what being spread out means to participation.

You seem to present it as Logan is the only school that has issues getting its best players to participate. It's not and I've just pointed out what happens at Warren. The difference is that if Logan can't get its top ten athletes out for a sport and Warren can't get its top ten athletes out for a sport, Logan has twice as many kids to try and fill those roles. If you and I were trying to assemble a team, you wouldn't like your odds by having 50 people to choose from while I only have 25 knowing that from those groups the best people for the job may not even be interested?

So no, Logan does NOT belong with Warren, but we don't complain or make excuses (we're just flat out terrible at football right now). You may not feel you belong with Columbus schools either - Logan doesn't have a real good fit nearby. It is a tough position to be in, but it forces a decision and it is absolutely undeniable that Logan has taken the easier path. It is okay, it enables their kids to compete. But you can't play "woe is me" and talk trash about other schools that make similar decisions. The routes, the reasons...these may be different, but the results are the exact same.

Now, you have a scramble on your hands and we'll see how that shakes out. Canal Winchester had a decent football team as recently as three years ago. The last two years they've won a single game. Same region as Logan and what has been the difference? During their playoff seasons and near-misses, they had 5 smaller schools on the schedule every year. The last two years, they've played 19 out of 20 against their own division or higher. It is a choice; Logan's choice is to play smaller teams to be more competitive. It is okay, but it IS playing down.

GOOD POINT GRAD! ive said this a few times now, logan is a 1 county district. for an easy example look at athens. 5 high schools in 1 county....... athen, nelsonville, trimble, alexander and fed hock. if those would be consolidated into a 1 county high school. giving them an enrollment of about 2291. athens would be in worse shape then logan because they WOULD be DI. then everyone could say " big fish little pond, scheduling down, etc.... athens wouldnt really be able to efford for gas to travel to c-bus just to play school theyre own size.

People already say that about Athens. Normally, it is a handful (or one) from Logan. That's the point of the discussion. Athens went to a situation that put their athletes in a better position to compete. Logan puts its athletes in the best position to compete. BOTH schools play smaller teams and should be expected to have top programs in those circumstances. And both schools try to justify it with "oh we're not really that big because not every kid plays" or "we did it for the travel." It is okay to just leave it at, "we do it because we want our kids to compete." And accept that for all the other schools that do the same thing.

[Logangrad]

My apologies my Warren reference was with a basketball thought.

But once again you keep saying we have more kids to pull from and like I've said the fantasy outweighs the reality. We don't have any more kids to pull from than most D2/D3 schools. We are actually trending to the lower side of numbers now. But most kids in this area can't play a sport. Logan is not Lancaster and yes and I realize our problems coexist with most rural schools but just because I have access to 500 kids does not mean I can get 400 of them to come out for football. Logan had 40+ kids on the varsity last year. That's not a mind blowing or dominating amount of kids.

It is what it is no sense going on about it.

As for Shadyside like I said its a quality opponent that with a win could bring solid secondary points.

[1987chieftains]

Enig, we (Logan) cant efford to bus every Logan team to C-bus, Cincy, Dayton etc.. just to play teams in DII..... nobody in SEO can do that. So our AD just like Warrens and every other AD in SEO does. Schedules the best teams they can and if every now and then if you have to play a team that is not as good as your team but is willing to help fill both teams schedules then so be it. its the down side of living in SEO.
You mention CW..... CW might as well be in C-bus. They are 5 mins from I270. So playing the same or bigger is not an issue for them to schedule. The OCC doesnt mind traveling 5 mins out of theyre comfort zone.

[enigmaax]

But most kids in this area can't play a sport.

They CHOOSE not to play a sport. It may be because they don't want to drive. It may be because they don't care about football. But it is a choice and there are still more of them to make the choice at Logan than anyone else in the area.

Other than that, you are right; we aren't going to agree on a few points and there probably isn't much left to say. Thanks for the conversation and I hope things work out for Logan (and Jackson).

[1987chieftains]

This is off OHSAA site.

Division I – 643 to 1,266
Division II – 428 to 642
Division III – 309 to 427
Division IV – 242 to 308
Division V – 177 to 241
Division VI – 120 to 176
Division VII – 30 to 118

Logan is at 478, 50 kids from DIII. The bottem side of DII and shrinking like everyone else in SEO.

There are only 5 schools in the state that below I70 and within a hour of Logan.
Logan
Teays Valley
Zanesville
CW
Licking Heights

[Raider6309]

Your numbers are way off
I 608 and more
II 403 to 607
III 402 to 281
IV 280 to 213
V 212 to 156
VI 155 to 112
VII 111 and less

[enigmaax]

Enig, we (Logan) cant efford to bus every Logan team to C-bus, Cincy, Dayton etc.. just to play teams in DII..... nobody in SEO can do that. So our AD just like Warrens and every other AD in SEO does. Schedules the best teams they can and if every now and then if you have to play a team that is not as good as your team but is willing to help fill both teams schedules then so be it. its the down side of living in SEO.
You mention CW..... CW might as well be in C-bus. They are 5 mins from I270. So playing the same or bigger is not an issue for them to schedule. The OCC doesnt mind traveling 5 mins out of theyre comfort zone.

Logan is at 478, 50 kids from DIII. The bottem side of DII and shrinking like everyone else in SEO.

There are only 5 schools in the state that below I70 and within a hour of Logan.
Logan
Teays Valley
Zanesville
CW
Licking Heights

This, I do not buy the "can't afford it" argument at all.

Who says you have to stay below I70. You could go as far as Gahanna, Upper Arlington, Pickerington, Reynoldsburg, Grove City, New Albany, Worthington, and Newark (I think you did recently play them) all within the same distance or less as traveling to Gallia Academy, Warren, Jackson, Portsmouth, Marietta (I include them since people had talked about them coming back to the SEOAL). Add Westerville, Dublin, Olentangy, etc. (a 5-10 minute difference from going to Warren) and that leaves a lot of bigger, Columbus-area schools in-between.

Logan is making near-two hour trips to play D6 Loudonville and D7 Shadyside. You can't tell me that there's no money to travel half that distance.

As a quick sample, I found the following schools already in Logan's football region that are right around an hour drive (again, you are already making that drive to compete in the SEOAL). New Albany, Worthington Kilbourne, Licking Heights, Zanesville, St. Charles, Dublin Scioto, Northland, Hamilton Township, Hilliard Bradley, Walnut Ridge.

I realize not every team will want to make the drive to Logan every year (and this hinders Logan's ability to get into a conference up there). But it is hard to believe that there aren't enough schools who would do a home-and-home every few years to fill a schedule.

I respect most of the opinions on here, though I may disagree. Just keep in mind that my involvement in the conversation started after comments like this:

While I would look at Shadyside being the underdog, they are often better than much of the dregs that make up SEO, so the Chiefs get some competition. This is only the beginning of difficult scheduling for Logan as I expect most of SEO to run from the Chiefs. Even getting Columbus area schools to schedule is tough with few wanting to travel much outside of Franklin Co.

It should be interesting to see who Logan can get to fill game 9 the following year as Gallia leaves. Team Canada ? West Virginia ? Some one with balls will step up. Probably won't be SEO, but someone somewhere will.

I know that everyone already knows that guy is a ****tard, but that doesn't mean that the logical counterpoints can't be made. Logan has been a big dog in the SEOAL for quite some time while avoiding better competition in the other direction. Boo hoo that the little guys won't play big, bad Logan.

[OVCFan2]

Soooo...... how is Shadyside looking for the 2015 season? How is their stadium and fan support?