Marietta early leader in All-Sports Trophy race

[loganlocos]

Wouldn't it be better if every school had a legitimate shot at winning the trophy based on their performance? This has probably been mentioned, but you could just take the total points earned in all of the sports that a school participates in then divide by the number of sports. The winner would be the school with the highest average finish in the sports they were in. What's wrong with that?

But this could actually discourage schools from offering sports. For example, Logan has ONE league tennis title in school history (1989) and never really been competitive. When I was in school, we won like 6 matches in three years.

I think we've finished second in the league once in the last 10 years, but for the most part, we're a bottom of the barrel finisher.

So why don't we just get rid of the sport, save money for the athletic department, and improve our all-sports trophy standing?

The rules are what they are. Two years ago Logan got screwed on a coin toss. Was it a bummer? Yes. But you agree to the rules up front. You can't change them in the middle of the game.

Look at Saturday. Logan's Trent McCort hit a hurdle in the 300m Hurdles final after running the fastest heat time in the pre-lims. He likely would have given Logan a 1-2 finish in the 300M hurdles, enough to vault them over Marietta for second. He hit a hurdle for the first time all season. Is "fair" that we lost a point in the all-sports trophy race because a kid made one mistake all season?

I think it's fair. That's the way competition works. Gallipolis is the 2nd or 3rd smallest school in the league and I think the ONLY sports they do not offer are Girls Tennis and Girls Soccer, and I don't think either counts toward the all sports trophy (not enough schools have teams). If GAHS can do it, then every other school should be able to as well.

[loganlocos]

I'll also add this. I wouldn't mind seeing the All-Sports Trophy handed out on a divisional basis. The North would have it's own (eliminating the need for a coin toss) and the South would have it's own.

This would also put the smaller schools (Ironton, portsmouth, GAHS) on a more level playing field and keep the bigger schools (Logan, Marietta, Zanesville, Warren) together.

That's the best solution I can think of to create more equity in the Trophy.

[runhallerun]

Locos

First, I don't believe anyone is asking to change the rules in the middle of the game, simply wondering why the league cannot find a better way to break ties, and better reward athletes for on-field performance. (Warren has been on the short end of the lottery twice in the last three years.) I understand how the ties are broken, I just think educated adults should be able to come up with a more equitable way of sorting these ties out.

Second, your logic might be a little off on the tennis. The more sports your school has better chance your school has at the AST - the way the process works now - finishing last in tennis gets you more points than schools without tennis.

And yes, Logan should have finished 3rd in the league track meet - because the kid hit a hurdle. I will guarantee you - Mr. McCort had an easier time "dealing" with his team's fate Saturday, than the 4 year starters on the Warren softball team who battled back to win a share of the league title only to find themselves playing in the 5th place Day of Champions game. Mr. McCort is a competitor, he runs to win, and I am sure he has "filed" his mistake away and will use the experience to make himself an even better hurdler. The senior girls on the softball team say gee - that was kind of "hokey" - file that away as a negative experience and start really looking forward to graduation.

I only use the above as an example - this should not happen to any team in this league. Mistakes happen on the field, court, diamond etc, mistakes separate a winning team from a losing team. I am sure other schools had similar experiences with athletes who didn't make that catch, basket, block, kick, etc. The difference is those events took place in athletic competition - that is what makes sports exiting and interesting - the human drama. Points toward the AST should not be decided by some coach or principal sticking his/her hand in a hat to draw a number and decide a team's fate.

I think the SEOAL is a great league, but they just are not on the right page with these tie breaks. Lets do better here - SEOAL - for the kids.

[warrnwarriorfan]

Locos: I assumed that the rationale for doing the math the way it is done was to encourage participation in as many sports as possible. I can't imagine that the all-sports trophy is important enough to truly influence the decision to have or not have a sport, but stranger things have happened. I can't see how the smaller schools in the league would have enough athletes for all the sports. I also can't see how they could afford all the sports given that funding is typically based on your district's student population.

Warren is in a pretty good pinch financially, they closed two elementary schools last night, and pay-to-play has already been discussed at a BoE meeting. While Warren may have historically opted out of Tennis for other reasons, the reasons now are financial as much or more than anything else.

I mentioned all this to the Warren admin and they said there is little doubt it will be hashed out again at the league meeting in June. With schools leaving the league this may be a good time to tweak things. If there is a more equitable way to manage this thing, then I think it should be used.

You may be right about the divisions. I'm not sure we even need divisions at this point in the ballgame.

[Paladin]

I was serious. The whining only started AFTER it appeared to affect the outcome of the trophy. Bush League. All the schools that make-up the SEOAL has decided the RULES. Not you. Once the rules are set, play the games.

The trophy is there. Compete for it or not. Your choice. Small school or big school. Its the TOTAL points from boys & girls sports---- as many or as few as you wish to sponsor. My point is still valid -- do well in all your sports & you win the trophy with fewer sports.

Whoever wins it has had a successful year from most of its sports teams.

[runhallerun]

I obviously cannot speak for all Warren fans - but as a Warren fan and alumni - I have never "whined" (as Aladin put it) about Warren not having Tennis. If enough kids are interested in it - start it up. We (Warren fans) understand that we do not have tennis and tennis is counted toward the AST - that's cool - what is not cool - is the lottery to decide ties with those points being used to decide the AST winner.

Warren, Marietta and Logan all did do well with their sports this year. Things ended up being "skewed" due to the drawing to decide the softball tie. And trust me, I would be opposed to the "lottery" even if Warren was the school benefiting - not Logan or Marietta. The whole drawing thing - stinks to high heaven.

[MttaFan]

runhallerun is absolutely right. A coin flip or drawing straws as a first tie breaker is just wrong. Have a pre-determined tie breaker based on division record, total points(runs), point differential, or anything that reflects on the actual competition that took place. I'd rather they take total team GPA as a tiebreaker over drawing straws.

[loganlocos]

runhallerun is absolutely right. A coin flip or drawing straws as a first tie breaker is just wrong. Have a pre-determined tie breaker based on division record, total points(runs), point differential, or anything that reflects on the actual competition that took place. I'd rather they take total team GPA as a tiebreaker over drawing straws.

The problem with "run differential" is the fact that teams will "run up the score." Trying explaining to Zanesville why Marietta's best pitcher went an extra inning an no subs were made even they the Tigers had comfortable 12-0 lead. Does that seam right?

Other tie breakers are no more fair. Overall record? You'll see watered down schedules. Division record is already used by itself anyway.

[loganlocos]

Second, your logic might be a little off on the tennis. The more sports your school has better chance your school has at the AST - the way the process works now - finishing last in tennis gets you more points than schools without tennis.

I was referring to warriorfan's suggestion that we take the AVERAGE finish as to not punish schools that do not have a particular sport. In the current set up, there is an incentive to ADD sports.

If you make the change suggested, taking the points and dividing by total number of sports offered, you would have an incentive to not compete in sports in which you are not competitive.

[loganlocos]

I obviously cannot speak for all Warren fans - but as a Warren fan and alumni - I have never "whined" (as Aladin put it) about Warren not having Tennis. If enough kids are interested in it - start it up. We (Warren fans) understand that we do not have tennis and tennis is counted toward the AST - that's cool - what is not cool - is the lottery to decide ties with those points being used to decide the AST winner.

Warren, Marietta and Logan all did do well with their sports this year. Things ended up being "skewed" due to the drawing to decide the softball tie. And trust me, I would be opposed to the "lottery" even if Warren was the school benefiting - not Logan or Marietta. The whole drawing thing - stinks to high heaven.

As I said before, do the math. The softball may not even affect the final standings.

If you give all three teams first place points for softball according to the numbers already listed, it would look like this:

Logan 85 now, 89-90 after tennis
Warren 88.5, finished
Marietta 86 now, 88-89 after tennis

As you can see, Marietta would need to win their Tennis DOC and hope for a Logan loss to force a tie for the Trophy. A Logan win in the Tennis DOC and they would win the trophy.

A win by Logan AND Marietta and the order doesn't even change.

Logan was in the same situation as Warren two years ago in girls basketball. That group of seniors got disapointed. It's unfortunate, but I think the girls have managed to move on.

[MttaFan]

Your points are very good, but I still think that any criteria that uses on the field/court performances is a better tool than a coin toss.

[Cap'n Scoop]

I don't think the kids really care much about the AST. Mine have NEVER even brought it up. It appears to me that the parents care more than the kids, me included. I'm dropping out of it, if it doesn't bother my kids, it isn't going to bother me anymore.

What does bother me is that Warren and Marietta softball teams finished with the best records in the league but were awarded 5th and 3rd place respectively because of a coin flip...that is "bush league" as Mr. Paladin put it.

[noreply66]

still no word on the make-up tennis matches

[noreply66]

SEOAL All-Sports Trophy

School..........Total.....Spring.....Winter.....Fall

Logan...........89.5......32.5.......20.0.......37.0
Marietta........86.0......32.5.......12.0.......41.5
Chillicothe.....85.5.......26.0.......24.0.......35.5
Warren.........84.5.......31.0.......17.0.......36.5
Zanesville......72.5.......28.5.......13.0.......31.0
Athens..........69.0.......25.0.......10.0.......34.0
Gallipolis.......67.0.......33.5.......12.0.......21.5
Jackson.........65.0.......21.0........8.0.......36.0
Ironton..........46.5.......15.5.......14.0.......17.0
Portsmouth.....44.5.......19.5........8.0........17.0

[Paladin]

Is that the final ??

[noreply66]

Yes--as per LDN

[Paladin]

Congrats to Logan. I note that the North TOTALLY DOMINATED the South in sports again. Not just the overall Champ, but most of the other teams as well .

As I predicted several years ago, in the face of "much" bluster from fans in the South, The SEOAL will demonstrate that the North is superior to the South and across most of the sports.

Just another year of confirmation !!

[2old]

Paladin,

As always the ney sayers like to play with the numbers. Some point out "Logan is on a nice run" (read Chieftain Envy). When the orange and Black so loved by the poster who says that were winning as much as Logan they were considered "Dominate". Well Logan is on a nice run and that run is going to continue. I wonder when the nice run ends and Domination begins???

I don't care when Logan plays ironton, I do know if you want to see a big crowd the game MUST be early in the year. It seems once it is obvious Logan is Dominate not as many "Tiger Fans " come out to play.

[warrnwarriorfan]

Let the chest thumping begin . . .

[noreply66]

I would say Logan will fall off some come 2011 season and for a couple years after.

Right now two teams from the South are having some good seasons in the underclassman.(I think it is Ironton and Portsmouth)

Will the Ironton Tigers stay around that long for the league to see?