EXPANDED PLAYOFFS : Who really benefits going forward ?

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EXPANDED PLAYOFFS : Who really benefits going forward ?

Post by FANOSPORTS »

I know this Covid year is abnormal but the regular playoff format will go from 224 to 336 teams starting next year. I would guess with expanded format will include the Top 4 in each region getting bye with 5-12, 6-11, 7-10 and 8-9 playing each other in rd. 1. My personal opinion (which doesn't mean much) is that it's been watered down now to the point of saturation, especially with 7 divisions. I know we had opt-ins this year also but in "Playoff Rd. 1" last week even with the Top seeds having byes and not playing there were 40 shut outs and 110 teams won their games by 30+ points with some being 40, 50, 60 and 70 point wins..,...and sure the cream rises to the top by regional final time and seasons end with the finals but who really benefits from these type games ? Much of the same will happen when they go to 12 per region next year. Is it really about the kids, community, comraderie, sportsmanship and ethics today ?


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Re: EXPANDED PLAYOFFS : Who really benefits going forward ?

Post by BigGuy10 »

I personally think letting all teams into the playoffs makes it not as meaningful as it once was. I know back in the day they only allowed 4 but I think 8 is where it needs to be.

Next year when they allow 12, those who are ranked 13-16 will then argue “why can’t we be in too?”. In my opinion, it’s all so OHSAA can make their $$$ off of ticket sales. More teams=more money.



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Re: EXPANDED PLAYOFFS : Who really benefits going forward ?

Post by greygoose »

FANOSPORTS wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:54 pm
I know this Covid year is abnormal but the regular playoff format will go from 224 to 336 teams starting next year. I would guess with expanded format will include the Top 4 in each region getting bye with 5-12, 6-11, 7-10 and 8-9 playing each other in rd. 1. My personal opinion (which doesn't mean much) is that it's been watered down now to the point of saturation, especially with 7 divisions. I know we had opt-ins this year also but in "Playoff Rd. 1" last week even with the Top seeds having byes and not playing there were 40 shut outs and 110 teams won their games by 30+ points with some being 40, 50, 60 and 70 point wins..,...and sure the cream rises to the top by regional final time and seasons end with the finals but who really benefits from these type games ? Much of the same will happen when they go to 12 per region next year. Is it really about the kids, community, comraderie, sportsmanship and ethics today ?
I get it and this year is definitely abnormal so we kind of have to kick it to the side. Like you said next year they're allowing 12 teams so in turn the system is already being watered down. As you mentioned there was blowouts but the flip side can be said there was also teams getting 1st ever playoff wins or 1st playoff win in a long time. Just like you ask the question who really benefits from these types of games, the opposite can be asked who is really hurt by these types of games?? The coaches/AD/parents/kids all could've stood up and said no we'll stay at home and not play but a vast majority didn't do that. No one seems to complain about basketball allowing everyone in, everyone is buying those tickets so they can take in 3 or 4 games a night. Does football get held to a higher standard?? Should it be held to a higher standard or should basketball change their ways?? Most of the time these things work themselves out but every so often we might get to see that under dog pull off a win or 2 that no one expected. Maybe a team was missing a couple key starters for the first 4-5 games of the year and simply struggle without them, but by that time the damage is done and they typically wouldn't be able to get the points needed to make it in the playoffs. I think by doing it like they have this year or by the expansion to 12 the answer to your final question is it's about everything listed really, I'd probably put money at the top of the list but I think everything else falls in behind as an effect of it.



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Re: EXPANDED PLAYOFFS : Who really benefits going forward ?

Post by Raider6309 »

8 is perfect. It keeps out some of the Catholic schools :lol:



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Re: EXPANDED PLAYOFFS : Who really benefits going forward ?

Post by FANOSPORTS »

Raider6309 wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:26 am
8 is perfect. It keeps out some of the Catholic schools :lol:
I wholeheartedly agree with you on that point and from here on out with 12 you will see more Catholic, Parochial and Privates sitting in those 9-12 spots with 5-5, 6-4 and 7-3 records with strong schedules that will wreck havoc on a lot of 5-8 seed public schools with 1 or 2 losses in the 1st rd. and will get many wins against 1-4 seeds with 0-1 losses in rd. 2 and beyond. It's opened up a whole new can of worms starting next year. I guess the good side of this will be that the fans of the public school with the home teams when higher seeded will get to see a larger variety of good lower seeded non-public teams come into their town on a cool friday or saturday night. :?


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Re: EXPANDED PLAYOFFS : Who really benefits going forward ?

Post by Izladoom »

I like this year we are seeing matchups we never would have gotten in the past. Who it benefits it’s easy. Teams like valley who plays a really hard conference schedule and every team they play is bigger than them. But since they let everyone in the was able to win a playoff game and have a good chance of winning this week too. Look at northwest they won their first playoff game ever while it might not mean anything to others it means everything to that community.



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Re: EXPANDED PLAYOFFS : Who really benefits going forward ?

Post by 82nd »

have a live playoff commitee, put the best 8 in region regardless of record need to see quality football



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Re: EXPANDED PLAYOFFS : Who really benefits going forward ?

Post by rockcoach »

I agree the structure has watered down the meaning of the playoffs. It is going to be interesting to see how many gymnasiums have playoff banners hanging in their buildings after this season is completed. You know, they did make the playoffs this year! I've already heard talk from schools that they finally made the playoffs. Gotta wonder. And we all know the expanded system this year was mor about OHSAA recouping funds rather than covid! IMO



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Re: EXPANDED PLAYOFFS : Who really benefits going forward ?

Post by Crab's Brother »

I am not a fan of the expanded playoffs but at this point I not going to complain about anything.

10 weeks ago I had zero faith there would be a single game played. Now Valley is getting ready to play game 8. So I'm just happy the kids are getting a season.

As far as "playoff appearances".....I think if you make the Regional Quarterfinals, it counts. Otherwise it doesn't. For example, if Valley were to win this week, I would consider it a playoff appearance. If they lose this week, it will not be, in my view.



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Re: EXPANDED PLAYOFFS : Who really benefits going forward ?

Post by MrFirstTake »

I just feel like with them taking 12 teams there will be some schools who never miss the playoffs like literally ever to me that makes it not special at all just going back and looking at ironton only since 2001 they would have never missed the playoffs under the 12 man format 3 worst season during that time were coach vass 2017 4-6 11 seed 2013 3-7 11 seed coach lutz 2007 5-5 10 seed


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Re: EXPANDED PLAYOFFS : Who really benefits going forward ?

Post by Orange and Brown »

It is what it is...
No sense crying about it.


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Re: EXPANDED PLAYOFFS : Who really benefits going forward ?

Post by Westfan »

When they went to 7 Divisions, that watered some down. Divisions 6 and 7 are probably the easiest. I would agree with the other poster, in those 2 you probably should win 2 games if you're deserving

In Division 5, your 2nd round game can be pretty tough. Division 5 is like the old Division 4

One benefit will be teams may elect to play a better non-conference schedule if they think they will probably get in.

First and second round games with 12 teams (4 with byes) will probably be more competitive than the first round with 8 teams.



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Re: EXPANDED PLAYOFFS : Who really benefits going forward ?

Post by wobycat »

Westfan wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:09 am
When they went to 7 Divisions, that watered some down. Divisions 6 and 7 are probably the easiest. I would agree with the other poster, in those 2 you probably should win 2 games if you're deserving

In Division 5, your 2nd round game can be pretty tough. Division 5 is like the old Division 4

One benefit will be teams may elect to play a better non-conference schedule if they think they will probably get in.

First and second round games with 12 teams (4 with byes) will probably be more competitive than the first round with 8 teams.
I think it depends on the level of competition within that year. Last year, I thought only 2 or 3 teams were really good in d5. This year I think there may be 6 to 8 that can win it. 2017 was the same way as last year. There were like 3 to 4. 2018 there were about 5 or 6. So it depends on the division.



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Re: EXPANDED PLAYOFFS : Who really benefits going forward ?

Post by Westfan »

wobycat wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:17 am
I think it depends on the level of competition within that year. Last year, I thought only 2 or 3 teams were really good in d5. This year I think there may be 6 to 8 that can win it. 2017 was the same way as last year. There were like 3 to 4. 2018 there were about 5 or 6. So it depends on the division.
I'm meaning competitive games. Each year there are really 5 or less in each division that are really contenders.



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Re: EXPANDED PLAYOFFS : Who really benefits going forward ?

Post by MasterOfNone »

I’m glad football even got to play this year and I understand why they decided to let everyone in this year. But going forward I hope the OHSAA doesn’t continue to expand anymore then the 12. I personally don’t like adding the 4, I prefer having 8. It’s devaluing the meaning that making the playoffs hold. You think of a playoff team, it usually means that team must be pretty darn good. But allowing more and more teams in, that is becoming less true. A team that may not have even had a winning season gets in. The regular season means a ton in football, but by allowing more teams in it doesn’t mean as much.

As far as this year, like I said I understand the point of letting everyone in. It’s whatever and kinda unique with our current situation. But seeing all these teams who are counting this as their first playoff appearance in school history and getting their first playoff victory ever is nonsense. Majority of those teams that played last week weren’t even close to making the playoffs. It was given to them. Nobody during basketball season celebrates making the tournament because everyone gets in and it doesn’t mean anything until you actually prove you deserve to be there. Same concept in football this year.



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Re: EXPANDED PLAYOFFS : Who really benefits going forward ?

Post by Rolltanks »

I agree with a lot of points so far. I think that if they continue to use harbin that 12 teams isn’t so bad. If top 4 get buys then I think a 12v5 matchup will be better than a 1-8 in a lot of cases. Also teams that schedule up and miss out have a chance. Ursuline has had teams go 500 and just miss playoffs and I feel they could have competed for a region. Those are some of the positives I guess. I think 8 is a good number but I wish there was a better way to determine the top 8



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Re: EXPANDED PLAYOFFS : Who really benefits going forward ?

Post by Pol pot »

BigGuy10 wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:47 pm
I personally think letting all teams into the playoffs makes it not as meaningful as it once was. I know back in the day they only allowed 4 but I think 8 is where it needs to be.

Next year when they allow 12, those who are ranked 13-16 will then argue “why can’t we be in too?”. In my opinion, it’s all so OHSAA can make their $$$ off of ticket sales. More teams=more money.
The 12 team format was requested and lobbied by the OHSFCA and not the OHSAA. That is what the coaches wanted, they started the push for the expansion.



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Re: EXPANDED PLAYOFFS : Who really benefits going forward ?

Post by enigmaax »

I think sometimes people apply “rules” that are taken from college and pro sports to high school sports.

High school sports is largely about the experience. Few teams are good enough to make a serious run at a state title and there are wide gaps between various areas of the state. So first, shutting out teams due to location isn’t good, even though it is a rarity that a team from this area is going to win a state title. So there are regions and every region is treated to the same opportunity.

Then within each region, you still have various levels of competition. And you still have a team like Newark Catholic, who in many years could go 5-5 against a tough schedule and still beat everyone in their division/region by multiple scores. So if you say you want the “best” teams, again, a human would typically judge that they are better in nearly any given season. The computer system assumes, incorrectly, that all wins are comparative by size and opponents. The computer doesn’t always choose the best and humans certainly would pick certain schools based on history - there is no perfect system and we have long passed the days of pretending it is about getting the “best” teams.

One thing playoff expansion has done over the years is close the gap between different areas of the state. I 100% believe that is a result of success breeding success. Let’s say Fort Frye hadn’t gone through their first few blowout playoff losses. Then they never broke through with that first big win or never got the chance to play Kirtland close. Would anyone, out of nowhere, all of a sudden make them the favorite to win state this year? It’s been a long process that involves taking some lumps, but also involved tasting a new level of success to climb the ladder.

For high school kids, it should be about the experience. The team that gets in as a 12 seed next year could build on that success the same way teams who never got in until it went to 8 teams have elevated their programs. Yes, it also means that good teams with tough schedules will get in and beat bad teams with inflated records. Who cares? Nobody talks about how this school never would have been in if there were still only three divisions or two teams per region - that “too many teams” thing will go away in a few years just like it always has. And many more kids will get opportunities to surprise themselves, to taste some success, and yes, in some cases, learn hard lessons about reality. That’s life and that’s what it should be about.



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Re: EXPANDED PLAYOFFS : Who really benefits going forward ?

Post by Raider6309 »

CB and the 7th division basically made D5 pretty easy since the MAC is now D6 and D7



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Re: EXPANDED PLAYOFFS : Who really benefits going forward ?

Post by Boo-Duh »

From here on, it would be the Higher Seed that has the advantage. They would be playing at home. No neutral sites till Semi finals. Home field great advantage in High School!!! JMO


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