EXPANDED PLAYOFFS : Who really benefits going forward ?

MasterOfNone
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Re: EXPANDED PLAYOFFS : Who really benefits going forward ?

Post by MasterOfNone »

Boo-Duh wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:21 pm
From here on, it would be the Higher Seed that has the advantage. They would be playing at home. No neutral sites till Semi finals. Home field great advantage in High School!!! JMO
That is one aspect from the changes for this year that I do kinda like. I like that the higher seeds get to play at home more than one game. But I understand due to travel, that it would be difficult to continue that after this year.



ReedsvilleEaglesFan
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Re: EXPANDED PLAYOFFS : Who really benefits going forward ?

Post by ReedsvilleEaglesFan »

BigGuy10 wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:47 pm
I personally think letting all teams into the playoffs makes it not as meaningful as it once was. I know back in the day they only allowed 4 but I think 8 is where it needs to be.

Next year when they allow 12, those who are ranked 13-16 will then argue “why can’t we be in too?”. In my opinion, it’s all so OHSAA can make their $$$ off of ticket sales. More teams=more money.
That last sentence is all that needs to be written about this. It's all about the OHSAA making money. :oops:



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Re: EXPANDED PLAYOFFS : Who really benefits going forward ?

Post by Pol pot »

ReedsvilleEaglesFan wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:10 pm
BigGuy10 wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:47 pm
I personally think letting all teams into the playoffs makes it not as meaningful as it once was. I know back in the day they only allowed 4 but I think 8 is where it needs to be.

Next year when they allow 12, those who are ranked 13-16 will then argue “why can’t we be in too?”. In my opinion, it’s all so OHSAA can make their $$$ off of ticket sales. More teams=more money.
That last sentence is all that needs to be written about this. It's all about the OHSAA making money. :oops:
Well, you are correct, money is important. There would be no HS sports if the OHSAA did not have millions in reserve to whether 11 months with no income and no debt. Could your place of employment do that? Businesses and cities across American have found out that you actually need substantial reserves.



ReedsvilleEaglesFan
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Re: EXPANDED PLAYOFFS : Who really benefits going forward ?

Post by ReedsvilleEaglesFan »

Pol pot wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:24 pm
ReedsvilleEaglesFan wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:10 pm
BigGuy10 wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:47 pm
I personally think letting all teams into the playoffs makes it not as meaningful as it once was. I know back in the day they only allowed 4 but I think 8 is where it needs to be.

Next year when they allow 12, those who are ranked 13-16 will then argue “why can’t we be in too?”. In my opinion, it’s all so OHSAA can make their $$$ off of ticket sales. More teams=more money.
That last sentence is all that needs to be written about this. It's all about the OHSAA making money. :oops:
Well, you are correct, money is important. There would be no HS sports if the OHSAA did not have millions in reserve to whether 11 months with no income and no debt. Could your place of employment do that? Businesses and cities across American have found out that you actually need substantial reserves.
I disagree with you that "there would be no HS sports without the OHSAA..." If that organization folds you can bet high school sports will continue. I just wish they didn't make every decision based on how much money it will make for them. Well, that and fear of being sued.



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Re: EXPANDED PLAYOFFS : Who really benefits going forward ?

Post by greygoose »

rockcoach wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:41 am
I agree the structure has watered down the meaning of the playoffs. It is going to be interesting to see how many gymnasiums have playoff banners hanging in their buildings after this season is completed. You know, they did make the playoffs this year! I've already heard talk from schools that they finally made the playoffs. Gotta wonder. And we all know the expanded system this year was mor about OHSAA recouping funds rather than covid! IMO
I'm sure to some extent you're partially right that it helps recoup some money. The other though is OHSAA trying to find a fair balance for all teams involved. Remember there were some teams up north that were shutdown from football activities until October, and others not starting up on time and some only playing a lower number of games compared to everyone else. If we're trying to keep it fair across the board for everyone this was really the only way to do that. With so much out of a teams control there's always a real possibility they don't know whether or not they play from week to week.



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Re: EXPANDED PLAYOFFS : Who really benefits going forward ?

Post by Pol pot »

ReedsvilleEaglesFan wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:29 pm
Pol pot wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:24 pm
ReedsvilleEaglesFan wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:10 pm


That last sentence is all that needs to be written about this. It's all about the OHSAA making money. :oops:
Well, you are correct, money is important. There would be no HS sports if the OHSAA did not have millions in reserve to whether 11 months with no income and no debt. Could your place of employment do that? Businesses and cities across American have found out that you actually need substantial reserves.
I disagree with you that "there would be no HS sports without the OHSAA..." If that organization folds you can bet high school sports will continue. I just wish they didn't make every decision based on how much money it will make for them. Well, that and fear of being sued.
Hmmm, so even though every state has a governor in body, you believe one is not needed. Interesting. I would be even more interested in what you would change.



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Re: EXPANDED PLAYOFFS : Who really benefits going forward ?

Post by Pol pot »

ReedsvilleEaglesFan wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:10 pm
BigGuy10 wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:47 pm
I personally think letting all teams into the playoffs makes it not as meaningful as it once was. I know back in the day they only allowed 4 but I think 8 is where it needs to be.

Next year when they allow 12, those who are ranked 13-16 will then argue “why can’t we be in too?”. In my opinion, it’s all so OHSAA can make their $$$ off of ticket sales. More teams=more money.
That last sentence is all that needs to be written about this. It's all about the OHSAA making money. :oops:
LOL, you simply lack any semblance of a clue! A clue about what the OHSAA provides, the things the organization has to abide by regarding state laws. It’s a non-profit organization that is run by the member schools. Do you really believe it’s different than any other HSAA in America? Let me here your comprehensive reform plan.



ReedsvilleEaglesFan
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Re: EXPANDED PLAYOFFS : Who really benefits going forward ?

Post by ReedsvilleEaglesFan »

Pol pot wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 7:06 am
ReedsvilleEaglesFan wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:10 pm
BigGuy10 wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:47 pm
I personally think letting all teams into the playoffs makes it not as meaningful as it once was. I know back in the day they only allowed 4 but I think 8 is where it needs to be.

Next year when they allow 12, those who are ranked 13-16 will then argue “why can’t we be in too?”. In my opinion, it’s all so OHSAA can make their $$$ off of ticket sales. More teams=more money.
That last sentence is all that needs to be written about this. It's all about the OHSAA making money. :oops:
LOL, you simply lack any semblance of a clue! A clue about what the OHSAA provides, the things the organization has to abide by regarding state laws. It’s a non-profit organization that is run by the member schools. Do you really believe it’s different than any other HSAA in America? Let me here your comprehensive reform plan.
Have you seen the salaries of this "non-profit organization"? If not, you might want to do a records request and start there. Also, do you really believe there would be no high school sports if the OHSAA didn't exist? If so, you are part of the problem. the OHSAA needs high school sports, not the other way around. And to say it's ran by all the schools in the state is misleading. They are influenced by certain schools etc... I get it that you don't respect the opinions of others, but I have one and it's different than yours. Furthermore, just because it may or may not be any "different than any other HSAA in America" doesn't mean they are not ran by self interest. Just sayin.



sapientia et veritas
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Re: EXPANDED PLAYOFFS : Who really benefits going forward ?

Post by sapientia et veritas »

An eleventh game helps every program who gets it. Going to 16 teams qualifying right away would have been smarter. Create a regular 9 game schedule as a default, but allow everyone to opt into a tenth game a week earlier. I don't like the idea of the last game in the second weekend of December so long as it's hosted in the NEO lake effect snow belt.



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Re: EXPANDED PLAYOFFS : Who really benefits going forward ?

Post by goUK »

this allows teams to potentially schedule a much tougher schedule and still make the playoffs. Before, if you lost 2 games, sometimes you wouldn't make it in. Now with a really tough schedule and a 7-3 record, you might be dangerous as a 9 seed.



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Re: EXPANDED PLAYOFFS : Who really benefits going forward ?

Post by enigmaax »

ReedsvilleEaglesFan wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:34 am
Pol pot wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 7:06 am
ReedsvilleEaglesFan wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:10 pm


That last sentence is all that needs to be written about this. It's all about the OHSAA making money. :oops:
LOL, you simply lack any semblance of a clue! A clue about what the OHSAA provides, the things the organization has to abide by regarding state laws. It’s a non-profit organization that is run by the member schools. Do you really believe it’s different than any other HSAA in America? Let me here your comprehensive reform plan.
Have you seen the salaries of this "non-profit organization"? If not, you might want to do a records request and start there. Also, do you really believe there would be no high school sports if the OHSAA didn't exist? If so, you are part of the problem. the OHSAA needs high school sports, not the other way around. And to say it's ran by all the schools in the state is misleading. They are influenced by certain schools etc... I get it that you don't respect the opinions of others, but I have one and it's different than yours. Furthermore, just because it may or may not be any "different than any other HSAA in America" doesn't mean they are not ran by self interest. Just sayin.
From what I found, there are 7 executive/director level full time positions with salaries that range from $103k-$203k and 10 non-paid board members. “Non-profit” does not mean that no one gets paid. There’s a lot of work and to get qualified people to efficiently run the organization, you are going to have to have a few full time positions. Those salaries are not exorbitant at all. And they spend right around 15% of their revenue on administrative costs, which is at the low end of a typical non-profit. This is all public information and readily available online. What issue to you take with it?



ReedsvilleEaglesFan
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Re: EXPANDED PLAYOFFS : Who really benefits going forward ?

Post by ReedsvilleEaglesFan »

enigmaax wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:43 pm
ReedsvilleEaglesFan wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:34 am
Pol pot wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 7:06 am


LOL, you simply lack any semblance of a clue! A clue about what the OHSAA provides, the things the organization has to abide by regarding state laws. It’s a non-profit organization that is run by the member schools. Do you really believe it’s different than any other HSAA in America? Let me here your comprehensive reform plan.
Have you seen the salaries of this "non-profit organization"? If not, you might want to do a records request and start there. Also, do you really believe there would be no high school sports if the OHSAA didn't exist? If so, you are part of the problem. the OHSAA needs high school sports, not the other way around. And to say it's ran by all the schools in the state is misleading. They are influenced by certain schools etc... I get it that you don't respect the opinions of others, but I have one and it's different than yours. Furthermore, just because it may or may not be any "different than any other HSAA in America" doesn't mean they are not ran by self interest. Just sayin.
From what I found, there are 7 executive/director level full time positions with salaries that range from $103k-$203k and 10 non-paid board members. “Non-profit” does not mean that no one gets paid. There’s a lot of work and to get qualified people to efficiently run the organization, you are going to have to have a few full time positions. Those salaries are not exorbitant at all. And they spend right around 15% of their revenue on administrative costs, which is at the low end of a typical non-profit. This is all public information and readily available online. What issue to you take with it?
I think the issues are obvious. You keep comparing the OHSAA to other entities and I'm not sure how that justifies what they do. You didn't respond to any of my questions or comments, and that tells me you just want to argue and are angry that someone disagrees with you.



enigmaax
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Re: EXPANDED PLAYOFFS : Who really benefits going forward ?

Post by enigmaax »

ReedsvilleEaglesFan wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:48 pm
enigmaax wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:43 pm
ReedsvilleEaglesFan wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:34 am


Have you seen the salaries of this "non-profit organization"? If not, you might want to do a records request and start there. Also, do you really believe there would be no high school sports if the OHSAA didn't exist? If so, you are part of the problem. the OHSAA needs high school sports, not the other way around. And to say it's ran by all the schools in the state is misleading. They are influenced by certain schools etc... I get it that you don't respect the opinions of others, but I have one and it's different than yours. Furthermore, just because it may or may not be any "different than any other HSAA in America" doesn't mean they are not ran by self interest. Just sayin.
From what I found, there are 7 executive/director level full time positions with salaries that range from $103k-$203k and 10 non-paid board members. “Non-profit” does not mean that no one gets paid. There’s a lot of work and to get qualified people to efficiently run the organization, you are going to have to have a few full time positions. Those salaries are not exorbitant at all. And they spend right around 15% of their revenue on administrative costs, which is at the low end of a typical non-profit. This is all public information and readily available online. What issue to you take with it?
I think the issues are obvious. You keep comparing the OHSAA to other entities and I'm not sure how that justifies what they do. You didn't respond to any of my questions or comments, and that tells me you just want to argue and are angry that someone disagrees with you.
Lol. You said, do a records request and start there. I did exactly that and gave you facts. The issues are not obvious based on the facts that I researched. So, what part of their spending do you take issue with?



ReedsvilleEaglesFan
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Re: EXPANDED PLAYOFFS : Who really benefits going forward ?

Post by ReedsvilleEaglesFan »

enigmaax wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:07 pm
ReedsvilleEaglesFan wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:48 pm
enigmaax wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:43 pm


From what I found, there are 7 executive/director level full time positions with salaries that range from $103k-$203k and 10 non-paid board members. “Non-profit” does not mean that no one gets paid. There’s a lot of work and to get qualified people to efficiently run the organization, you are going to have to have a few full time positions. Those salaries are not exorbitant at all. And they spend right around 15% of their revenue on administrative costs, which is at the low end of a typical non-profit. This is all public information and readily available online. What issue to you take with it?
I think the issues are obvious. You keep comparing the OHSAA to other entities and I'm not sure how that justifies what they do. You didn't respond to any of my questions or comments, and that tells me you just want to argue and are angry that someone disagrees with you.
Lol. You said, do a records request and start there. I did exactly that and gave you facts. The issues are not obvious based on the facts that I researched. So, what part of their spending do you take issue with?
You did a records request and got a response that quickly. WOW! I'm amazed ;) . Again, you ignore my comments and questions, and yet want me to answer yours. Let's start here though. You clearly are an OHSAA homer. Also, if you have no issue with the "spending" I can't help you to see the obvious. You'll just have to stay angry with the fact that many people disagree with you. I can see you have a major issue with that.

Meanwhile, the OHSAA is taking every cent from the gates of playoff games and providing a pittance to the schools who host the events all the while requiring the schools employ even more people due to Covid than they would have to during a normal season. That's a shame, but I'm guessing you, as a homer, are fine with that.



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Re: EXPANDED PLAYOFFS : Who really benefits going forward ?

Post by Kirtland80 »

Westfan wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:09 am
When they went to 7 Divisions, that watered some down. Divisions 6 and 7 are probably the easiest. I would agree with the other poster, in those 2 you probably should win 2 games if you're deserving

In Division 5, your 2nd round game can be pretty tough. Division 5 is like the old Division 4

One benefit will be teams may elect to play a better non-conference schedule if they think they will probably get in.

First and second round games with 12 teams (4 with byes) will probably be more competitive than the first round with 8 teams.
If D6 and D7 is the easiest, put your team up against a team like Coldwater or MSML and let’s see what happens. Should be easy win for you since they’re the “easiest.” I guarantee you that you can move either of them up to D5 right now and they will wreak havoc. Last time CW was in D5 they went to 5 straight state championship games winning 4 out of the 5. Canton Central Catholic got the miracle play on them or it would have been 5 out of 5
Last edited by Kirtland80 on Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:56 pm, edited 4 times in total.


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Re: EXPANDED PLAYOFFS : Who really benefits going forward ?

Post by enigmaax »

ReedsvilleEaglesFan wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:52 am
enigmaax wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:07 pm
ReedsvilleEaglesFan wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:48 pm


I think the issues are obvious. You keep comparing the OHSAA to other entities and I'm not sure how that justifies what they do. You didn't respond to any of my questions or comments, and that tells me you just want to argue and are angry that someone disagrees with you.
Lol. You said, do a records request and start there. I did exactly that and gave you facts. The issues are not obvious based on the facts that I researched. So, what part of their spending do you take issue with?
You did a records request and got a response that quickly. WOW! I'm amazed ;) . Again, you ignore my comments and questions, and yet want me to answer yours. Let's start here though. You clearly are an OHSAA homer. Also, if you have no issue with the "spending" I can't help you to see the obvious. You'll just have to stay angry with the fact that many people disagree with you. I can see you have a major issue with that.

Meanwhile, the OHSAA is taking every cent from the gates of playoff games and providing a pittance to the schools who host the events all the while requiring the schools employ even more people due to Covid than they would have to during a normal season. That's a shame, but I'm guessing you, as a homer, are fine with that.
The information is publicly available - no need for a records request. Here you go:

https://www.ohsaa.org/AboutOHSAA/OHSAAFinancials

Here are the salaries:

https://nonprofitlight.com/oh/columbus/ ... ssociation

In regard to your questions/comments - no, schools don’t “need” the OHSAA, specifically per se. But yes, schools need some organization to provide structure and guidelines that meets the needs of 700 or so schools. That’s why schools created the OHSAA and if it didn’t exist, they’d create something else.

You’ve stated you have a problem with the organization. I’m not sure what that problem is as you’ve been totally vague and offered no facts whatsoever. I don’t know if I agree or disagree with you yet because you haven’t stated any issue. It is apparently about the spending, but I’m not sure what. You mentioned salaries, which I provided. So is it just that you think those people are paid too much? You mentioned “self-interest”? What self-interest would that be? You said something like it is all about the money for the OHSAA. So they spend reasonably for a non-profit, there are no abnormal expenses, etc. - what exactly is the self-interest or greed?

You said they give a pittance to the schools. Schools keep all of their own money during the regular season and don’t pay for membership in the OHSAA. That’s not how most states do things, you know? To participate in the OHSAA-run tournament(s), which basically finds the organization for all sports (tourney money represents nearly 80% of revenue), there is an entry fee. What sense would it make and how on earth would it make financial sense to give away the money that enables the existence of the organization? If there was no OHSAA, schools would have to organize and pay for their own tournament for every sport - good luck. There’s definitely mutual benefit between the schools and OHSAA.

The organization isn’t getting rich - operating costs and revenue are pretty even. They pull in enough to keep going, basically. I’m not seeing the self-interest and greed in the numbers.

Now, if I’m missing something, I’d be happy to hear what you know that I’ve missed. So again, what is it that you take issue with?



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mattash
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Re: EXPANDED PLAYOFFS : Who really benefits going forward ?

Post by mattash »

I really like the playoff set up from this year.


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Re: EXPANDED PLAYOFFS : Who really benefits going forward ?

Post by Happy McGavin »

I wouldn't mind them keeping the playoff format this way, its ran the same way as the basketball and baseball tournaments.


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ReedsvilleEaglesFan
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Re: EXPANDED PLAYOFFS : Who really benefits going forward ?

Post by ReedsvilleEaglesFan »

enigmaax wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:28 am
ReedsvilleEaglesFan wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:52 am
enigmaax wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:07 pm


Lol. You said, do a records request and start there. I did exactly that and gave you facts. The issues are not obvious based on the facts that I researched. So, what part of their spending do you take issue with?
You did a records request and got a response that quickly. WOW! I'm amazed ;) . Again, you ignore my comments and questions, and yet want me to answer yours. Let's start here though. You clearly are an OHSAA homer. Also, if you have no issue with the "spending" I can't help you to see the obvious. You'll just have to stay angry with the fact that many people disagree with you. I can see you have a major issue with that.

Meanwhile, the OHSAA is taking every cent from the gates of playoff games and providing a pittance to the schools who host the events all the while requiring the schools employ even more people due to Covid than they would have to during a normal season. That's a shame, but I'm guessing you, as a homer, are fine with that.
The information is publicly available - no need for a records request. Here you go:

https://www.ohsaa.org/AboutOHSAA/OHSAAFinancials

Here are the salaries:

https://nonprofitlight.com/oh/columbus/ ... ssociation

In regard to your questions/comments - no, schools don’t “need” the OHSAA, specifically per se. But yes, schools need some organization to provide structure and guidelines that meets the needs of 700 or so schools. That’s why schools created the OHSAA and if it didn’t exist, they’d create something else.

You’ve stated you have a problem with the organization. I’m not sure what that problem is as you’ve been totally vague and offered no facts whatsoever. I don’t know if I agree or disagree with you yet because you haven’t stated any issue. It is apparently about the spending, but I’m not sure what. You mentioned salaries, which I provided. So is it just that you think those people are paid too much? You mentioned “self-interest”? What self-interest would that be? You said something like it is all about the money for the OHSAA. So they spend reasonably for a non-profit, there are no abnormal expenses, etc. - what exactly is the self-interest or greed?

You said they give a pittance to the schools. Schools keep all of their own money during the regular season and don’t pay for membership in the OHSAA. That’s not how most states do things, you know? To participate in the OHSAA-run tournament(s), which basically finds the organization for all sports (tourney money represents nearly 80% of revenue), there is an entry fee. What sense would it make and how on earth would it make financial sense to give away the money that enables the existence of the organization? If there was no OHSAA, schools would have to organize and pay for their own tournament for every sport - good luck. There’s definitely mutual benefit between the schools and OHSAA.

The organization isn’t getting rich - operating costs and revenue are pretty even. They pull in enough to keep going, basically. I’m not seeing the self-interest and greed in the numbers.

Now, if I’m missing something, I’d be happy to hear what you know that I’ve missed. So again, what is it that you take issue with?
So, you lied then LOL. No surprise there, and that lack of integrity says a lot. Do you even remember what the original statement I made that you questioned? Really, without going back and reading the posts, do you remember? I bet not. You're just butt hurt that I disagree with you. It's okay. You can admit it. :o



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Re: EXPANDED PLAYOFFS : Who really benefits going forward ?

Post by enigmaax »

ReedsvilleEaglesFan wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:59 am
So, you lied then LOL. No surprise there, and that lack of integrity says a lot. Do you even remember what the original statement I made that you questioned? Really, without going back and reading the posts, do you remember? I bet not. You're just butt hurt that I disagree with you. It's okay. You can admit it. :o
Ha ha. I know you are just talking nonsense for fun and have nothing to offer. But so you know, it was a worthwhile exercise because I didn’t know the financial details until I looked them up. Before that, I had no opinion, but I was aggravated in some instances with price hikes/ticket prices, as well. Thanks for encouraging me to become informed, so that I know there’s nothing unreasonable about how they do business. Perhaps this will also lead someone else to get real information to form an opinion, as well.



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