How can Granville beat Western Brown

greygoose
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Re: How can Granville beat Western Brown

Post by greygoose »

Dandy Don wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:39 pm
greygoose wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:23 pm Exactly, really had to watch this one to get a true understanding of how the game ended up 1 score. Also WB had a kickoff returned to midfield in the first half to help with a scoring drive and Granville tried one of the worst onside kicks I’ve seen in the 3rd to give WB the ball at the Granville 42. Yes they kicked it from the 40 and the ball rolled to crazy it was downed at the 42. Main difference in the 2 games Jackson didn’t make or WB was able to stop them from making them pay for a mistake. Granville forced turnovers and turnovers on downs and scored each time. 1st half Granville applied a lot of pressure even when they only rushed 3. It was an interesting chest match up front.
Gotta love those chest matches
:lol: :lol: oh yeah I play chest all the time, good catch.


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Re: How can Granville beat Western Brown

Post by ironman02 »

greygoose wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:26 pm Be upset all ya want I really could care less, you're not exactly a Jackson poster anyways spoke with several and they understand and you're popping on here a week late and a dollar short to try troll it.
I'm not exactly a Jackson poster anyway? I have been posting about Jackson athletics on JJHuddle and SEOPS since they came into existence. I don't post that often anymore, but I still read this forum a decent amount.

Trolling? You're on here with your "neutral" and "unbiased" opinions about Jackson all the time, yet I'm the one trolling? You're trying to act like you have a better understanding of Jackson and Clinton-Massie's defensive personnel than their own staffs and called them out for not game planning as you saw fit. Then, a week later, you took another dig at them by stating that Granville played it the right way, all while giving up 49 points (and yes, I realize that some of that came late in the game). Who am I to question your expert opinion with my "trolling" attempt though? Unreal.


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Re: How can Granville beat Western Brown

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greygoose wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:26 pm
ironman02 wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:16 pm
greygoose wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:03 am
Yeah that’s a tough offense to slow down, WB made some changes 2nd half as they only had 14 at the half. Yeah Granville was simply able to pressure and sack Novak pretty regularly in the 1st half. Like you said it’s all about capitalizing, Granville put up 57 which is more than Jackson could in 2 games combined they just didn’t make any mistakes when they had the ball. Biggest play might of been downing a punt after their first drive at the 1, Novak just threw it up for a pick just before the safety. Loved watching Novak and the chest match in this one, he adjusted well and I think problem better film for the young man and more experience from the things Granville did up front defensively.
Gonna try this one last time since I think you’re missing my point. I’m not trying to say that Jackson is better than Granville. I’m not even trying to say that Jackson’s defense is better than Granville’s.

You talked a lot of the last week or so about how terrible Jackson’s defensive game plan was against WB, and you said the same about Clinton-Massie. You stated what they “should” have done and then when Granville did some of the things you suggested, you acted like it was the clear answer to playing against WB. Even if it was 50-28 late in the game, that’s still basically the exact same result that Jackson achieved in both their games against WB. Late TDs in both games got the point totals allowed by Jackson to 33 and 35 respectively.

Acting like Jackson’s game plan was absolutely preposterous, while commending yourself and Granville for achieving the same or worse result is absurd. That make sense now? Granville is clearly the best team in the region, but they also had a tough time stopping an explosive offense. Maybe, just maybe, WB has an offense that is tough to stop no matter what scheme you decide to play against them.
WB is tough to stop but Granville had a plan in place that was able to stop/slow them down far better than anyone else, I'm hoping you actually watched the game so you understand. I did say I didn't like Jackson's game plan defensively, never said it was terrible, assuming you watch that game then you understand why. Be upset all ya want I really could care less, you're not exactly a Jackson poster anyways spoke with several and they understand and you're popping on here a week late and a dollar short to try troll it. Good Luck man my point was proven correct by Granville, 50-28 Jackson or Clinton Massie ever have that sort of lead?? NOPE at 6-6 Novak is simply to good to let sit back there and pick it apart if Granville didn't get pressure he was able to hit WRs against them as well. Have fun, hope you enjoyed the games even though it's obvious you didn't watch any.
No, there’s not been a bigger Ironmen football fan on here for the life of this site. He quit posting a lot as this place went stupid with a bunch of idiot posters. He knows his Ironmen football as well as anyone. His posts throughout the years have been quite spot on…and when he’s Ben wrong, he admits it. A lost quality on sports chat sites over the past 5-6 years. Few can admit being wrong but they jump at the bit to pat themselves on the back.


greygoose
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Re: How can Granville beat Western Brown

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ironman02 wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:56 pm
greygoose wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:26 pm Be upset all ya want I really could care less, you're not exactly a Jackson poster anyways spoke with several and they understand and you're popping on here a week late and a dollar short to try troll it.
I'm not exactly a Jackson poster anyway? I have been posting about Jackson athletics on JJHuddle and SEOPS since they came into existence. I don't post that often anymore, but I still read this forum a decent amount.

Trolling? You're on here with your "neutral" and "unbiased" opinions about Jackson all the time, yet I'm the one trolling? You're trying to act like you have a better understanding of Jackson and Clinton-Massie's defensive personnel than their own staffs and called them out for not game planning as you saw fit. Then, a week later, you took another dig at them by stating that Granville played it the right way, all while giving up 49 points (and yes, I realize that some of that came late in the game). Who am I to question your expert opinion with my "trolling" attempt though? Unreal.
Did you watch the Granville game?? As far as knowing Jackson’s personnel maybe I gave them a lot more credit for the athletes that team had this year it sounds like. If 1 plan doesn’t work you try something else it’s very simple. 29-42-420 yards would’ve been 500 if not for dropped passes, 80 more on the ground. If you think I’m the only one questioning why they didn’t change things up you haven’t paid enough attention. I get it you want to keep this glorious season going there’s a 2022 thread up though.


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Re: How can Granville beat Western Brown

Post by greygoose »

Ironman92 wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:07 pm
greygoose wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:26 pm
ironman02 wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:16 pm

Gonna try this one last time since I think you’re missing my point. I’m not trying to say that Jackson is better than Granville. I’m not even trying to say that Jackson’s defense is better than Granville’s.

You talked a lot of the last week or so about how terrible Jackson’s defensive game plan was against WB, and you said the same about Clinton-Massie. You stated what they “should” have done and then when Granville did some of the things you suggested, you acted like it was the clear answer to playing against WB. Even if it was 50-28 late in the game, that’s still basically the exact same result that Jackson achieved in both their games against WB. Late TDs in both games got the point totals allowed by Jackson to 33 and 35 respectively.

Acting like Jackson’s game plan was absolutely preposterous, while commending yourself and Granville for achieving the same or worse result is absurd. That make sense now? Granville is clearly the best team in the region, but they also had a tough time stopping an explosive offense. Maybe, just maybe, WB has an offense that is tough to stop no matter what scheme you decide to play against them.
WB is tough to stop but Granville had a plan in place that was able to stop/slow them down far better than anyone else, I'm hoping you actually watched the game so you understand. I did say I didn't like Jackson's game plan defensively, never said it was terrible, assuming you watch that game then you understand why. Be upset all ya want I really could care less, you're not exactly a Jackson poster anyways spoke with several and they understand and you're popping on here a week late and a dollar short to try troll it. Good Luck man my point was proven correct by Granville, 50-28 Jackson or Clinton Massie ever have that sort of lead?? NOPE at 6-6 Novak is simply to good to let sit back there and pick it apart if Granville didn't get pressure he was able to hit WRs against them as well. Have fun, hope you enjoyed the games even though it's obvious you didn't watch any.
No, there’s not been a bigger Ironmen football fan on here for the life of this site. He quit posting a lot as this place went stupid with a bunch of idiot posters. He knows his Ironmen football as well as anyone. His posts throughout the years have been quite spot on…and when he’s Ben wrong, he admits it. A lost quality on sports chat sites over the past 5-6 years. Few can admit being wrong but they jump at the bit to pat themselves on the back.
Yeah these sites have lost a lot of good posters over the years, I think more social media feeds have drawn them that direction as well.


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Re: How can Granville beat Western Brown

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greygoose wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:49 pm
Did you watch the Granville game?? As far as knowing Jackson’s personnel maybe I gave them a lot more credit for the athletes that team had this year it sounds like. If 1 plan doesn’t work you try something else it’s very simple. 29-42-420 yards would’ve been 500 if not for dropped passes, 80 more on the ground. If you think I’m the only one questioning why they didn’t change things up you haven’t paid enough attention. I get it you want to keep this glorious season going there’s a 2022 thread up though.
I listened to the Jackson-Western Brown regular season game on an online radio feed, but later watched some film of the game. Probably saw 80-90% of the snaps. Jackson led that game 28-27 late in the 4thQ before surrendering a TD to Western Brown in the final minute or two. WB won 33-28 in a game where I don't believe Jackson actually forced a turnover, but they did get several stops, forcing WB to turn it over on downs on various occasions. Jackson turned the ball over three times inside the WB 25 yard line, which is what cost them the game. They did an adequate job on defense against a great offense, but they didn't convert their offensive possessions into TDs and it cost them.

I watched every snap of the Jackson-Western Brown playoff game via a live online stream. That game was 28-28 before WB scored the game-winning TD with under 2 minutes to go. Much like the first game, Jackson killed their offensive drives, but this time with penalties. They did not convert enough opportunities into TDs, but once again did an adequate job of limiting an offense that was routinely scoring 50-60 points to 35. Had Jackson not committed several crucial penalties on key drives, their defensive effort would have been enough to get the win.

I was able to watch most of the Granville-Western Brown game online as well. I did have to step away on a few occasions, but saw probably 75% of the snaps. You are correct (which I have admitted) that Granville did a better job at rushing the QB, and also did not let him hurt them as much with his legs. However, with just a few minutes remaining in the game, they had surrendered 28 points to the WB offense, very similar to what Jackson had done twice before. The difference, as I said in my very first post to you, was that Granville got the job done on OFFENSE. They didn't ruin multiple drives with turnovers or penalties. They put up 50 points at that point, which is why they had a comfortable lead. They then gave up 3 late TDs, which probably were partially helped by them trying to keep everything in front of them due to having a lead and the clock on their side, but they still ended up allowing 49 points and nearly 400 yards passing to Novak.

So, to summarize, with anywhere from 2 to 5 minutes remaining in each of these three games, the scores were as follows...

Jackson 28 - Western Brown 27
Jackson 28 - Western Brown 28
Granville 50 - Western Brown 28

What is the difference? What is the outlier?

Despite using different game plans and various schemes or approaches, the Jackson and Granville defenses had achieved similar results against the explosive WB offense. The difference, as I have said about 50 time snow, is that the Granville OFFENSE did its job much, much better than the Jackson offense. Granville won the game because they performed superbly on offense, eventually scoring 57 points to win by 8. Their defense did some things well for sure, some of those things with more success than Jackson and CM, BUT they still had a tough time holding WB in check. Luckily, their offense got the job done. That is the point, and has been all along.

We can agree to disagree because I am obviously not changing you mind, and in my mind, the defensive efforts by WB opponents in these games achieved very similar results, even if the last three WB TDs of the Granville game magically don't count in your opinion.


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Re: How can Granville beat Western Brown

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I can add too that out offensive game plan was a bit conservative as well. Even though our backup QB played very well, our offense was more open and explosive with a healthy Carsyn Crouch. And I see why you all complained about officiating. In the history of football, I’ve never seen a team pass 60 times without 1 holding penalty. It was a little ridiculous.


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Re: How can Granville beat Western Brown

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What were the stats in this one?


greygoose
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Re: How can Granville beat Western Brown

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Raider6309 wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 4:32 pm What were the stats in this one?
On maxpreps which Western Brown has done a nice job of keeping up all their players stats.

Novak--34-57...383 yards.....4TD-3INT 17 carries for 134 for 2 Tds. QB rating 81.3

2 games vs Jackson
Game 1
Novak--27/41....396...3 TDs 18 carries for 89 yards 1 Td QB rating 121.6
Playoff game
Novak--29/42....420...2Tds 2ints 21 carries 74 yards 2 Tds QB rating 97.3

Against Granville he got most of that in the 2nd half and final 4 minutes, had his worst game from a QB rating by a long shot, one of the lowest completion % of the year, and most INTs in a game.

Really enjoyed watching this young man these final 2 games live and in person was well worth sitting around in the cold for sure. Can't wait to see what offers he racks up over the course of summer camps not much this young man can't do. Going to have a huge senior season next year as that entire offense is back going to miss the 2 senior WRs his brother #7 and the #5 WR plus they return 4 of 5 starting OL. Their offense is going to be made up of mostly Seniors, WOW. Will for sure be a fun team to watch again next year and will be in the running again for region championship.


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Re: How can Granville beat Western Brown

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ironman02 wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:53 am
greygoose wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:49 pm
Did you watch the Granville game?? As far as knowing Jackson’s personnel maybe I gave them a lot more credit for the athletes that team had this year it sounds like. If 1 plan doesn’t work you try something else it’s very simple. 29-42-420 yards would’ve been 500 if not for dropped passes, 80 more on the ground. If you think I’m the only one questioning why they didn’t change things up you haven’t paid enough attention. I get it you want to keep this glorious season going there’s a 2022 thread up though.
I listened to the Jackson-Western Brown regular season game on an online radio feed, but later watched some film of the game. Probably saw 80-90% of the snaps. Jackson led that game 28-27 late in the 4thQ before surrendering a TD to Western Brown in the final minute or two. WB won 33-28 in a game where I don't believe Jackson actually forced a turnover, but they did get several stops, forcing WB to turn it over on downs on various occasions. Jackson turned the ball over three times inside the WB 25 yard line, which is what cost them the game. They did an adequate job on defense against a great offense, but they didn't convert their offensive possessions into TDs and it cost them.

I watched every snap of the Jackson-Western Brown playoff game via a live online stream. That game was 28-28 before WB scored the game-winning TD with under 2 minutes to go. Much like the first game, Jackson killed their offensive drives, but this time with penalties. They did not convert enough opportunities into TDs, but once again did an adequate job of limiting an offense that was routinely scoring 50-60 points to 35. Had Jackson not committed several crucial penalties on key drives, their defensive effort would have been enough to get the win.

I was able to watch most of the Granville-Western Brown game online as well. I did have to step away on a few occasions, but saw probably 75% of the snaps. You are correct (which I have admitted) that Granville did a better job at rushing the QB, and also did not let him hurt them as much with his legs. However, with just a few minutes remaining in the game, they had surrendered 28 points to the WB offense, very similar to what Jackson had done twice before. The difference, as I said in my very first post to you, was that Granville got the job done on OFFENSE. They didn't ruin multiple drives with turnovers or penalties. They put up 50 points at that point, which is why they had a comfortable lead. They then gave up 3 late TDs, which probably were partially helped by them trying to keep everything in front of them due to having a lead and the clock on their side, but they still ended up allowing 49 points and nearly 400 yards passing to Novak.

So, to summarize, with anywhere from 2 to 5 minutes remaining in each of these three games, the scores were as follows...

Jackson 28 - Western Brown 27
Jackson 28 - Western Brown 28
Granville 50 - Western Brown 28

What is the difference? What is the outlier?

Despite using different game plans and various schemes or approaches, the Jackson and Granville defenses had achieved similar results against the explosive WB offense. The difference, as I have said about 50 time snow, is that the Granville OFFENSE did its job much, much better than the Jackson offense. Granville won the game because they performed superbly on offense, eventually scoring 57 points to win by 8. Their defense did some things well for sure, some of those things with more success than Jackson and CM, BUT they still had a tough time holding WB in check. Luckily, their offense got the job done. That is the point, and has been all along.

We can agree to disagree because I am obviously not changing you mind, and in my mind, the defensive efforts by WB opponents in these games achieved very similar results, even if the last three WB TDs of the Granville game magically don't count in your opinion.
That's a good run down, there's a huge difference in a 50-28 game from playing and coaching stand point Granville simply started to relax to soon was all. Which exactly what you said is the defense simply playing it safe and not playing like it did the first 3 plus quarters so I guess if you want to hold that final 4 minutes as the end all be all in your mind that's cool, because like you said they were playing to keep things in front of them. Granville 100% got it done offensively and with a backup QB plus he got hurt on their first series and he wasn't running making it that much more impressive what they did offensively. Defensively they got the job done in a big way, pressuring the QB creating turnovers and causing turnovers on down that's all anyone can ask of a defense and they did that. Can't be helped the special teams giving up onside kicks. As a Jackson fan if you felt you guys did everything you could to stop their offense that's all you can hope for, play zone all game again next year and same results will happen. Which is exactly my point in the whole topic of it all, Jackson set back and let him play pressure free took the L both times, even when WB committed penalties they still overcome every setback. Of course you're not changing my mind and I'm not even trying to change yours the proof is in the game film not the final score. Did enjoy your run down though, thanks for the input you should stay more active not sure if you just follow the Ironmen is all or not but good insight for sure.


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Re: How can Granville beat Western Brown

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Really surprised Granville basically dominated WB. I couldn’t imagine how many rushing yards Granville had


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Re: How can Granville beat Western Brown

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Raider6309 wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:12 pm Really surprised Granville basically dominated WB. I couldn’t imagine how many rushing yards Granville had
Not for sure what their total ended up being seemed like Haley was the only one rushing it and he ended up with 274 and 6 tds, just with the turnovers and turnovers on downs created Granville's defense forced multiple drives of 30 and 40 yards and less. They hit multiple TD passes and completions at the right time as well.


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Re: How can Granville beat Western Brown

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I remember the state power teams would bring the house on every play vs those Joe Burrow teams. Made zero sense why a team with one player why Hall didn’t let the Jackson defense come after Novak. I thought Jackson should have won by 14 but poor coaching. This was probably Jackson’s best chance to get to state


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Re: How can Granville beat Western Brown

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Raider6309 wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:48 pm I remember the state power teams would bring the house on every play vs those Joe Burrow teams. Made zero sense why a team with one player why Hall didn’t let the Jackson defense come after Novak. I thought Jackson should have won by 14 but poor coaching. This was probably Jackson’s best chance to get to state
Poor coaching 😂 Jackson held western brown to their 2 lowest point totals all season? Also Jackson returns a ton


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