LeBron vs. Jordan

[farmer]

Jordan did not have the big dips in his play where he would be a non factor. He may have had an off night where someone else led the team in scoring. He didn't have as many games of below 10 points as LeBron. Also he wanted the ball at the end of the games. Which LeBron may want to win Jordan would go out and get the win.

Stats are what stats are. If that is the case than Wilt Chamberlin should be in the top 5 players of all time. But he is over shadowed by the will to win of Bill Russell doing all he could to win the game. Including outplaying Wilt in many head to head contests. Stats are what they are. They do not represent who is the best player.

20 years from now many would not have heard or seen Jordan play. They would have heard more about LeBron. But just because the way the story is told does not make it right as those who think LeBron is better now. Jordan when he walked on the floor he was all about winning. LeBron wants to turn the switch on and off during a game or games. That down time is not a player but more of a player with a lot of skill. Bottom line 5 seconds left in the game down by 1 point who do you want with the ball??? No matter who the other 4 is on your team.

[noreply66]

My comparison of the two

Scoring overall: Advantage Jordan (One of the best offensive players to ever play the game)
Scoring on wing: Advantage Jordan (Slightly better shooter than Lebron)
Post-game: Advantage Lebron (6'8"/6'9" 260 and has spent time playing both the 4 and 5 for Miami)

Rebounding: Lebron (7.2 rpg compared to Jordan's 6.2)

Passing: Lebron (6.9 apg compared to Jordan's 5.3)

Defense: Jordan (Very slightly. Averaged more steals in his career but has similar block numbers. Lebron's versatility keeps it close).

Versatility: Lebron (Can and has played all 5 positions on both sides of the ball)

Intangibles(last second shot/clutch): Jordan-(Proved this on many occasions. A good portion of his legacy is built off final shots or huge performances in important games)

Making Teammates better: Lebron-(My evidence for this is the comparisons of both the Bulls the first season Jordan left to play baseball and the Cavaliers post Lebron. The Bulls lost very narrowly in the conference finals led by Pippen and the Cavaliers finished with the league's worst record and got another #1 overall pick)

Had better players around them up to this point: Jordan (Lebron's first season in Miami was the first season of his career that he had a championship caliber team around him. Rick Barry's Golden State team that won the title back in the day and maybe Dirk's team 2yrs ago are the only teams in NBA history that I can think of that won a title without a legitimate #2 star. Even though that Mavs team did have Jason Kidd, this year's defensive player of the year Tyson Chandler, and a multiple time 6th man of the year in Jason Terry. Not to mention Shawn Marion)

Youngest to win a title: Tie (They were both 27 when they won their first title. The Bulls came up short against the Pistons until 91 and Lebron dealt with crappy management in Cleveland who refused to put anyone better than a 37yr old Shaq or a 33yr old undersized 4 in Antawn Jamison beside him. The exception to that obviously was Mo Williams who on a normal contender would be a solid 3rd or 4th option)

Youngest to be named league MVP: Lebron (24 compared to Jordan's 25)

Hairline: Advantage Lebron (Jordan just gave up after a while. Gotta give Lebron credit for sticking with it. Should monetize it like Anthony Davis' brow caterpillar).


Jordan is obviously the greatest player in history but it is absurd to say Lebron will never be able to get there. Lebron is closing the gap. To the age of 27 Lebron has had the better career of the two so give him some time. He could win the next 5 or 6 titles or never make another all-star game. It's too early to compare their careers.





JMO

Now put Johnson in here and compare

[UK#1]

did lebron beat the monstars from moron mountain while having the loony tunes as teammates? i didnt think so. but seriously nobody will ever be greater the mj

[dazed&confused]

Lebron is the better athlete. MJ is the better competitor.

[mustang_lvr]

how many outstanding players played at the same time as Jordan and then list them against James

[TribeManiac10]

how many outstanding players played at the same time as Jordan and then list them against James

That's a very loaded question. Kevin Durant, Dwyane Wade, Kobe, Carmelo, Chris Paul, etc would all fit right in with players from the 80s/90s. The only position that is lacking now compared to then is the center spot because the position is being redefined to match a European style. If anything some positons are stronger now, like point guards for example. There is no way you could convince me that the 90s produced a better group of guards than Paul, Rose, Rondo, Irving, Westbrook, Deron Williams, Tony Parker, and Damian Lillard. There are only 3 or 4 talented traditional centers in the league. Arguably the best post player in the game Dwight Howard doesn't even fit the mold of a Shaq, Hakeem, or Ewing.

[noreply66]

Jordan's Chicago teams wouldn't do as well in league now. That team didn't really have that much talent. Jordan would probably be the only one starting in todays NBA.

[C-Bolt]

Good point noreply with maybe the exception of Pippen,I have always said the talent around Jordan was lacking which makes him better IMO, but he did have a great coach

[TribeManiac10]

Good point noreply with maybe the exception of Pippen,I have always said the talent around Jordan was lacking which makes him better IMO, but he did have a great coach

His teams lacked talent? He had two other hall of famers(Rodman is arguably the greatest rebounder in the history of the game and Pippen could be one of the three best small forward defenders ever), he had Ron Harper who averaged 18ppg the year before he joined Chicago, he had one of the best international players at the time in Toni Kukoc, and Horace Grant who was an all star in 94. That's not counting the teams he played on that couldn't beat the Pistons. If you add those in he played with George Gervin and Charles Oakley. The Cavs team that Lebron took to the finals that lost to the Spurs was worse than any team Jordan played for in his career, including the wizards.

[C-Bolt]

Rodman???? good rebounder but what else could be do besides distract the team?Harper was over the hill by the time he hit the bulls,Grant was a good rebounder and could play a little defense but not much of an offensive threat, but I do remember him getting a lot of dunks and layups from Jordan feeds and I done mentioned Pippen,,,, and Kukoc??? Come on would you really take him over Bosh and Wade or even Ray Allen? I can't think of anybody besides Pippen that could create their own offense like the big 4 in Miami, they were all role players with Jordan,Harper could early in his career, but his first year with the Bulls he flopped then Jordan came back and started to get a little better, but got hurt never was the same and Kukoc did show flashes of it at times, but was way too inconsistent.

[noreply66]

I guess I should have said, the talent around Jordan wouldn't compare to the talent that many teams have today.
The only thing that will keep the players of today out of the HF is the other player out there with them.

Can't bring in the argument about the Dream Team because the across the pond players are twice as good now.

[TribeManiac10]

Rodman???? good rebounder but what else could be do besides distract the team?Harper was over the hill by the time he hit the bulls,Grant was a good rebounder and could play a little defense but not much of an offensive threat, but I do remember him getting a lot of dunks and layups from Jordan feeds and I done mentioned Pippen,,,, and Kukoc??? Come on would you really take him over Bosh and Wade or even Ray Allen? I can't think of anybody besides Pippen that could create their own offense like the big 4 in Miami, they were all role players with Jordan,Harper could early in his career, but his first year with the Bulls he flopped then Jordan came back and started to get a little better, but got hurt never was the same and Kukoc did show flashes of it at times, but was way too inconsistent.

I might take him over a 37yr old Allen. In Ray's prime not a chance.

[noreply66]

Jordan said he would have Kobe over James because Kobe had more championships--if that is the way he picks then he has just knock himself out of thinking he is the best NBA player of all-time. Look at the numbers of players that have championships for Boston. If Jordan is the best with people going on championships, he is far from the best. Thinking that way makes Bill Russell twice the player Jordan is. Look up how many K.C. and Sam Jones have. How about Bob Cousy, If winning Championships make Jordan and Bryant better than James then the Boston players put those two down the list. Jordan didn't win one championship, his team did but not him.

[C-Bolt]

Read where Jordan beat the number 2 pick in the draft last year in a game of one on one recently,the 50 year old G.O.A.T can still ball

[TribeManiac10]

Jordan said he would have Kobe over James because Kobe had more championships--if that is the way he picks then he has just knock himself out of thinking he is the best NBA player of all-time. Look at the numbers of players that have championships for Boston. If Jordan is the best with people going on championships, he is far from the best. Thinking that way makes Bill Russell twice the player Jordan is. Look up how many K.C. and Sam Jones have. How about Bob Cousy, If winning Championships make Jordan and Bryant better than James then the Boston players put those two down the list. Jordan didn't win one championship, his team did but not him.

Far too much stock is put into team championships. It is important for an individual to have team success but just counting ring totals to determine the greatest player of all time is naive. No one argues Bill Russell is better than Jordan but everyone is quick to mention ring count when comparing Jordan to younger players. There is a serious double standard in these debates. Jordan is put on a glorified pedestal because he was the best player in the generation of most of the current media. Immediacy is the flavor of the month in GOAT debates which often overlooks older players in favor of the next group, Jordan is not immune to this effect. His legend will diminish slightly with time. In the recent ESPN article debating the greatest athlete of all time Jordan won the popular vote. I'm sure some of the greats( Babe, Wilt, Ali, etc.) might have had something to say about that if given the chance. I am of the opinion that you cannot necessarily be the greatest player of all time, just your generation. The game changes drastically over time and a lot of the factors we use to judge the players do as well. Wilt/Bill, Lebron/Durant, Magic/Larry are more pertinent debates than Jordan/Lebron in my opinion. Just my two cents.

[C-Bolt]

your right tribe, I shouldn't have said he was G.O.A.T since I didn't see a lot of them older players, so I'll make it G.O.M.T. greatest of my time. I never liked Jordan when he played, but I admire he got it done with just average at best talent around him besides Pippen,all the others were role players, while Majic, Bird, Jabbar, James all had or have talented scoring players up and down their rosters in their primes.Now if James can come back to Cleveland as some in Ceveland speculate and win a couple champions I might change my mind.Anybody that can win a championship in that town has got to be pretty good

[TribeManiac10]

your right tribe, I shouldn't have said he was G.O.A.T since I didn't see a lot of them older players, so I'll make it G.O.M.T. greatest of my time. I never liked Jordan when he played, but I admire he got it done with just average at best talent around him besides Pippen,all the others were role players, while Majic, Bird, Jabbar, James all had or have talented scoring players up and down their rosters in their primes.Now if James can come back to Cleveland as some in Ceveland speculate and win a couple champions I might change my mind.Anybody that can win a championship in that town has got to be pretty good

It will be a tough sale to get him back in Cleveland after everything that has happened. The incentive of playing with another star in Irving couldn't hurt though.

[C-Bolt]

I agree I don't see him coming back,if he leaves Miami he will probably go to the Lakers or New York,but if they're still winning championships and keep their core players he probably just stays in Miami.