Todd McShay would kick Mel Kipers Butt!

[Peake]

I am done with Mel Kiper. This guy is right on with draft picks about 15% of the time. If I have to listen to anyone it is Todd McShay. Kiper is all about combine numbers and nothing else.

[Orestes]

I don't know man. McShay has major D-bag written all over him. I think Kiper has a lot more credibility than McShay. Either way, the NFL GMs are the real pros. All else is speculation.

McShay was a D-1AA walkon, and has no experience around NFL franchises. How does one become a draft expert? At least have some NFL scouting experience.

[BigMcCauley55]

Kiper dosent think about the smaller school players and he hypes up way too many people De Jackson was a first rounder easy according to Mel so was Kelly and Sweed

I only use their advice as guidlines so i dont really care what they say because most the time i know what my team needs and dosent need

[bigtimehitter]

I am done with Mel Kiper. This guy is right on with draft picks about 15% of the time. If I have to listen to anyone it is Todd McShay. Kiper is all about combine numbers and nothing else.

what???? Kiper knows his stuff for sure, if you go back the the last 10 yrs, he is almost right on on everything, hes called almost all sleeper picks and almost alll the big busts.

[The_Legend_of_Northwest]

Kiper dosent think about the smaller school players

kiper had that winston salem state kid that the nfl didnt know about

[Peake]

COme on guys lets get real. Tell me where Mel Kiper played at again? Pretty funny how a guy who has never played/coached can break down all the talent in the Draft without any experience other than going to combines and looking at numbers. He said Mario Manningham was "too short and too slow". Tell me the last time Mario was ran down from behind. He averaged how many yards a catch? He also led the country in 2006 in TD's over 30 yards.

This is what Mel Kipers Mock Draft looked like the week before the draft.

Name Team Player Position
1 Miami Dolphins Glenn Dorsey, DT LSU
2 St. Louis Rams Chris Long, DE Virginia
3 Atlanta Falcons** Matt Ryan, QB Boston College
4 Oakland Raiders** *Darren McFadden, RB Arkansas
5 Kansas City Chiefs** Jake Long, OT Michigan
6 New York Jets *Vernon Gholston, DE Ohio St.
7 New England Patriots (from SF) *Aqib Talib, CB Kansas
8 Baltimore Ravens Sedrick Ellis, DT USC
9 Cincinnati Bengals *Phillip Merling, DE Clemson
10 New Orleans Saints Kentwan Balmer, DT North Carolina
11 Buffalo Bills *Malcolm Kelly, WR Oklahoma
12 Denver Broncos *Ryan Clady, OT Boise St.
13 Carolina Panthers Jeff Otah, OT Pittsburgh
14 Chicago Bears Sam Baker, OT USC
15 Detroit Lions Leodis McKelvin, CB Troy
16 Arizona Cardinals *Jonathan Stewart, RB Oregon
17 Minnesota Vikings *DeSean Jackson, WR California
18 Houston Texans Mike Jenkins, CB South Florida
19 Philadelphia Eagles Chris Williams, OT Vanderbilt
20 Tampa Bay Buccaneers *Felix Jones, RB Arkansas
21 Washington Redskins *Calais Campbell, DE Miami
22 Dallas Cowboys (from CLE) *Mario Manningham, WR Michigan
23 Pittsburgh Steelers *Chilo Rachal, OG USC
24 Tennessee Titans Limas Sweed, WR Texas
25 Seattle Seahawks Fred Davis, TE USC
26 Jacksonville Jaguars *Derrick Harvey, DE Florida
27 San Diego Chargers *Reggie Smith, CB Oklahoma
28 Dallas Cowboys *Rashard Mendenhall, RB Illinois
29 San Francisco 49ers (from IND) *James Hardy, WR Indiana
30 Green Bay Packers Keith Rivers, LB USC
31 New York Giants Dan Connor, LB Penn St.

So in all of that he got 4 right and that was all at the top of the draft.

McShay drilled the first 5 picks off the board. He did say he thought Atlanta should have went after Glen Dorsey.

Kiper said that Manning and Leaf were interchangable. That they were both on about hte same skill level.

He said Andre Ware would be an excellent QB in the NFL.

Proclaimed Mike Williams of USC as the best player in the 2005 draft. Rated #1 on his Big Board that year.

Laughed at the Bengals in 2002 for taking Levi Jones (pro bowler) and not taking Phillip Bucannon was still avaliable. Bucannon had rode the bench now for what 3 teams.

2004 over rated players- Jarred Allen and Sami Parker
under rated- Maurice Clarrett

2003- under- Byron Leftwich, Senneca Wallace,

2002- over- Alex Brown, Charles Grant
under- Joey Harrington, Mike Rumph???

2001- over- Rudi Johnson, Derrick Burgess, Marcus Stroud


See the guy is no genious.

McShay refers more to film than he does to combine numbers that often mean squat!

Give me McShay any day!

[Orestes]

Well, I take it that you agree Gholston will be a total bust, half of the 2009 1st round will be SEC players, and Chris Wells will not go in the first round?

[Peake]

I don't know what you are referring to. McShay said that Gholston at times seemed to take plays off, or he was uninterested at times than would turn it on and dominate. I don't believe that is saying he is a bust.

[Orestes]

He said that OSU is a program with a loser mentality. Though, that helps me to understand why some people like McShay.

No Beanie in the first round?

[BigMcCauley55]

yes mel did have that kid but he did not have an OSU fullback in his postion rankings which suppose to have EVERYONE including the area favorite Mr. Whaley

[seofan_via_dublin]

I don't think Gohlston is a player that deserved to be a top 10 pick.

He had a very good season for the Buckeyes, but the spotlight was on him after
Lawrence Wilson's injury.

Gohlston had 6 games in which he didn't record a sack, he had 7 of his 14 sacks
in two games, and he never led the team in tackles getting only 37 tackles all year.

He wasn't fast enough to play linebacker for Ohio State, he isn't big enough to play
traditional DE in the NFL. He isn't a run stopper.

He will go down as a very good Buckeye, but not a historically great one. He may have
the all-time sack record in a single season, but Vrabel was a more game effecting player.

So, I can see where McShay can say what he did about Gohlston. I hope he is wrong,
but I don't expect H.O.F. caliber play from Vernon. I would imagine he will make a couple
of Pro-Bowls in his carrer though.

[Peake]

He could be thinking along the lines that Beanie will stay another year in college.

Loser mentality? Do you have these in quotes?

[seofan_via_dublin]

He could be thinking along the lines that Beanie will stay another year in college.

Loser mentality? Do you have these in quotes?

Especially since Beanie has already said he is going to return for his senior year.

I know that bucket doesn't hold much water in April, but he isn't looking to impress
the NFL just so he can leave early.

[Orestes]

McShay said it on an ESPN Radio program. I can't really quote that.....

As for Beanie, in other statements, McShay has mentioned the best RB's in college football and has not mentioned Beanie.

In McShay's 09 Mock Draft, 7 of the first 10 are from the SEC. I think we all know where he is coming from.

Also, I have no problem with McShay's belief that Gholston will be a bust. However, he always, always brought up how much of "dog" Gholston was during games. Tressel himself has said that Gholston was often assigned containment, and that OSU's scheme sets plays up for the LBs. Vrabel played for Pagac and Cooper, and the scheme was a much more attack and man to man philosophy. Plus, having Lawrence Wilson would have only opened up more plays for Gholston. Teams were able to double and triple him since OSU's D-line were all frosh and sophs.

[Peake]

Obviously you do have a problem with him saying Gholston will be a bust or you wouldn't have brought it up.

I don't know what you are talking about with the doubles and triples. I would say it is safe to say that at least 1/2 the teams OSU plays run a zone blocking scheme. Meaning a player is assigned an area and if there is a man in it they block them, if not they go second level and allow the RB to make the read.

Michigan, Illinoise, NW, Wisconsin all run zone blocking schemes.

Beanie is a great player there is no doubt, I don't know what McShay does or doesn't like about him

[Orestes]

McShay would go out of his way, every single time, to rip on Gholston. He can have the opinion, but he acts like GMs are stupid for having him so high on their draft board. Just like when the Texans were bashed violently by ESPN-types for skipping Reggie Bush for a DE who "took plays off."

Surprise surprise, he doesn't think way too highly of Malcom Jenkins, James L, Alex Boone, and Chris Wells either.

I guess I didn't expect you to be the type to agree that 7 of the top 10 NFL prospects are in the SEC.

Just because a team runs a zone blocking scheme does not mean that the team will not help out on another team's best D-lineman. That would be a bad move, especially when OSU's weakness was D-line, and yet had a first rounder on the line. Hmmm...maybe they should provide the good one with some extra coverage?

[Orestes]

College Football Live last night..the two Heisman contenders from the RB's this year are Moreno and LeSean McCoy....who?


And yes, McShay was one of the people on the show hyping McCoy, and they failed to mention who he plays for. I've never heard of him.

Oh, and McShay thinks Allan Evridge of Wisconsin will be the best QB in the Big 10 this year. - UDBuck


Thx everyone, looking back at it, a emailer asked if McCoy could win it, and McShay/Ware agreed of RBs its him or Moreno * - UDBuck [15:01:45 04/30/08]

Seems hard to believe, Beanie averaged an entire yard more/carry than McCoy...that's HUGE... * - Pants McPants [14:55:27 04/30/08]
against better D's than in the Big Least, too. * - '96Buck [14:56:22 04/30/08]

The back that clinched our berth into the BCS title game before the OU-Mizzou game was over. * - OSU Evan [14:52:03 04/30/08]

Now you're just making stuff up. * - Gerd [14:50:07 04/30/08]

McCoy is nice, but he ain't never awoke a day in his life and dreamt he was Chris Wells...(m) - Ken Pryor [14:46:25 04/30/08]

so * - rp BUCK*urphy [14:45:07 04/30/08]

McCoy plays for Pittsburgh, and yes, he is a good one, but I'd take Beanie easily over him. * - Purgatory Buck [14:42:51 04/30/08]

I thought Gerd's response was funny. He is always being sarcastic. He knows the guys really saw McShay say these things on ESPN.

[Peake]

Oh my something new from Orestes.

All praise OSU!!!!

So I am supposed to take something serious that looks to be on an OSU board that you copied and pasted.

JL and Jenkins are both in his top 15 picks next season in his first Mock Draft. What else do you want?

Boone is a nice player but he is not a lock in the first round yet on anyone's Draft Board (except maybe OSU fans who believe everyone of thier guys should be 1st round picks).

[Orestes]

The RB that Lloyd said is the best he has ever seen in the Big Ten isn't as good as a RB as two RBs in 2008. The RB that Dick Tressel says is a Jim Brown clone, is not even 1st round pick worthy, even with a healthy season.

The copy and paste was for humor. I don't copy and paste homer stuff to prove my points. I'll leave that to you in your attempts to bash Justin Boren.

I don't mean to offend you and your man-crush on McShay.

[Peake]

hahaha, man-crush, that is a good one.

The best RB since Bo Jackson just won offensive Rookie of the Year for the Vikings. I wouldn't dare compare Beanie to Adrian Petterson.

Beanie is a good back, and bless Lloyd little heart for saying what he did, but I didn't hear any other coach across america come out and say Beanie is the best back they have ever seen aside from Jesus Christ himself.

Don't get me wrong I think Beanie is a great back, but he is more Eddie George than anyone. Runs straight up, has good speed and power, sees the hole and makes great cuts, but he is a big tall back that are all but going extinct.