Referees

[Hitops2.0]

[quote="Sportsfan2"]I happily referee and have been doing it for a few years. It doesn't matter what sport you ref/umpire some fans will stand out with what/how they say things. The lower levels that you referee a lot of times the harder it is to ref, due to a lack of skills by the players as they develope. AAU basketball can be even worse because the fans are usually sitting right on top of you. With that being said, mom and dad still want their all star to get every call. I try to be consistent, hustle to position every time down the court, but sometimes you just get beat.
Not all contact is a foul. Every situation is different. As a ref you have a split second to make the call, or if you wait and have a little bit slower whistle, to let the play finish, you may have just a touch longer. On a block or charge call, there are several variables that you have to read before making the call. I had a freshman boys game this year that we called over 40 fouls. The scorers table told us before they JV game they stopped counting. Nothing got out of hand, and they said we did a good job (the home team lost). We came out for the JV game and the foul could was only in the 20's.
There are good and bad officials everywhere, just like the fans can be. Not all fans know all the rules (nor do the need to), or have the same view as we do on the court. Give us a break next time, or come put the stripes on and have the same fun I do.
The 5 second count is only a frontcourt violation. While the ball is in the backcourt only a 10 second count is kept.[/quote
I stand corrected , I meant frontcourt in the half court set , and agree with the number of calls and The skill sets , however the kids at JV and varsity level are playing far more aggressively which to me is fine, I don't mind "play ons" , however this blatant jersey grabbing and and forearm throwing while setting moving screens is frustrating for fans to watch and players play against and not get a call . it seems as the play gets more aggressive over the years the refs lose sight " that a foul is still a foul " until you get what we're seeing today ....NO CALLS ...I also understand that the block/charge is a split second call with lots of variables but I've seen plenty of head scratchers this year where you wonder what game the ref was watching ...... I think what we as fans want are referees that have played the game, understand game flow , be fair and consistent , try to get into good position, call a foul when its a foul , reward GOOD defense , don't reward out an out of control offensive player by calling anything and don't anticipate contact , I see an awful lot of that, the refs mind is already made up that theres gonna be foul on a breakaway or on the blocked shot . and if you take pride in what you do ... I hope to see your crew on the court

[Trooper]

A referee gets paid $65 per game for a varsity game in the SOC. That's a league rule. I don't think raising the pay to $80 per game is a silly argument with all things considered. Would it make referees call a better game? I highly doubt it, not me, at least. Easy on those of you saying that "$80 an hour" to ref a game is crazy, just calm down. I haven't seen very many hour-long varsity games. Officials generally have a 30 minute to 1 hour drive, one way, to their games, after working all day. Most varsity officials arrive at 6:00 for the JV tip and offer advice/help to the JV officials at halftime and after their game. The average varsity game is usually over around 9:00. Most nights I'm lucky to get home before 10:00 to see my family. It was my decision to become an official and I'm not complaining about the late nights. I don't think the extra pay per game would break the athletic departments like some people think, considering they charge $5 per ticket. That's only an extra $45 per game set aside for officials.

[Ushoot2Ishoot3]

I feel youre right trooper that it wouldn't make the "less than average" refs call any better. I would hope that it would interest quality personnel to join in and bolster the good ones that are there already. I know it wouldn't break the bank either even if it was just for a boys varsity game. It may be an incentive for others to want to be able to do those games.

[mikepike]

I recommend every fan sit at least one game at the scorers table, running the clock and paying attention instead of talking to your neighbor and complaining about each and every call. Then they will see that officials try to do their best (there are a few really bad ones, a few really good ones, and many in between) and have no vested interest in who wins and who loses. Running the clock for 4 years really opened my eyes. How many on here or in the stands would trade places with them? I know I wouldn't.

[Swampfox]

I feel certain established coaches sometimes get calls especially if they are on the officials. Coaches that are 4 & 5 ft on the court coaching the game and other coaches have to stay in the box. I agree that some referees are good for referees except they cant keep up the pace. I have seen fouls calls on layups with the official at halfcourt. What is your feeling about zone refereeing? It is my understanding a lot of refs dont blow the whistle if its not in their zone. I feel they get paid to call what they see. Also I was told by refs that the end of the quarter or game fouls where a player is fouled on a despartion shot is not called. I feel its up to the defensive player not to foul. Also referees dont want to decide the game on a questionable foul. If it is normally a foul and they dont call it they have decided the game. Call the foul and let the players decide the game. After all players are the one that are to decide the game.

[Out of Bounds]

A lot of interesting posts on here. I've coached JV and Varsity and been a Varsity official. With that being said, the one comment that bothers me is people saying it's a good call or a bad call from the stands. People see what people want to see. You only remember the calls that go against your team. You never remember the over the back call that no real advantage was gained and the official swallowed his whistle on, that went in favor of your team. But if he did blow his whistle, it's a terrible call. Go sit and watch a game that you have no interest in who wins. Observe the fans. Everytime the whistle blows, someone is unhappy! It's actually quite commical. Look at it from the officials point of view. More times than not, you will say, "Yep, that was foul." or "Yep, they traveled." When your not emotionally into the game, I believe you would consider the officiating much better. (just a little food for thought)

[Willy Cheatem]

My three favorite screams from the crowd are,

1. THATS OVER THE BACK! - fans have a dual purpose for this.

A. Any time the other team gets a rebound.
2. Any time the other team gets near the half court line with the ball.

2. THAT HAS TO BE SOMETHING! - This means it is traveling or a charge if the other team has the ball, or a blocking foul if the screamers team has the ball.


C. CALL IT BOTH WAYS! This actually means, call everything against the opponent of the screaming fans team.


To all these requests I say, show me the money.

[MC Noles SportsFan]

A lot of interesting posts on here. I've coached JV and Varsity and been a Varsity official. With that being said, the one comment that bothers me is people saying it's a good call or a bad call from the stands. People see what people want to see. You only remember the calls that go against your team. You never remember the over the back call that no real advantage was gained and the official swallowed his whistle on, that went in favor of your team. But if he did blow his whistle, it's a terrible call. Go sit and watch a game that you have no interest in who wins. Observe the fans. Everytime the whistle blows, someone is unhappy! It's actually quite commical. Look at it from the officials point of view. More times than not, you will say, "Yep, that was foul." or "Yep, they traveled." When your not emotionally into the game, I believe you would consider the officiating much better. (just a little food for thought)

I'll have to agree here...been to many games scouting with nothing in the game at all, and wondered many times what game the fans around me were watching.
Then on the other hand I've been at those same games and saw calls that I thought the officials missed terribly...but you'll have that...no one is perfect.

[Ironman92]

As an official at the high school level I do it for two reasons. 1. I love the game,( Can't play it anymore because of a bad acl injury). 2. It allows me to get through the winter time blues, gets me out of the house.
Yes, the extra money is a nice supplemental. Not great, but nice.
Do I or my crew get every call right? I think we do. no, not really, we are human!
My advice to fans is scream as loud as you want, just don't make it personal. My advice to coaches, is coach, if you have a question ask, but don't whine!! ( there are a lot of whiners) good luck the rest of the year to all teams and hopefully if my crew is working we do a good job.

This guy and the crew he's with are 3 of the better ones for sure.

[Regulator]

I was at a game fri night and heard some fans screaming at the ref to call the hand check and over the back, after a few whistles the same fans yelled let em play!

Funny listening to idiots!
Yes, if you scream and holler I am calling you an idiot

[Blackcobra]

That's funny Willy and mostly true Best one of the four games this weekend was a fan yelling toward a seasoned ref," RETIRE, your horrible" few minutes later," good call, good call"

[Heavy D]

Have any of you people ever been and watched two major colleges teams play? Do you think the college students are yelling good job Mr. official you are doing a great job? Do you see college officials rabbit earing the crowd? No you don't. This is part of the atmosphere. They love the big game excitement. They know college students yelling at them is just that and it is not going to crush their precious egos. Give me a break on all the political correct bs and let students be students and have fun at a ball game. Yelling four eyes at an official shouldn't send him into a shell. If it does he is in the wrong profession. Just like players on opposing teams get booed. As a player you kind of like that just as you like getting cheered by the home team. I keep reading the league assigner comments, I say go for it but you are still going to have the same small pool of officials to pick from. The only difference you will see one you think that is bad at a different school. You are still going to get the same guys just maybe at different places. Do the math.

I agree I should be able to yell at the refs all I want and they should take it. As long as I don't curse at them. I think they get paid too much too. They should all get $20 to do a game and the same for all levels. That would keep those out of town guys from coming in and then running for the doors after the game trying to get the he11 out of dodge. Keep the local guys doing all the games so they know they have to answer for all the bad calls they make. That should keep them on their toes and more honest. It would also keep them from mouthing back at the fans, and from throwing people out of games right and left. :122245

[irontontruth]

I tell you what....why cant players play....coaches coach....and leaves refs to ref

[4thgoal]

I tell you what....why cant players play....coaches coach....and leaves refs to ref

I think that is what most people want going into a game. There are too many instances where referees want to make themselves 'noticed' or 'important'. Several times this year I have seen that as the case. None of them were cases where there was favortism showed, but too many calls that just weren't there or that could/should have been let go. Sometimes it seems like the officials will realize "it's been 1:20 since we made a call, so we better call something"

[Blackcobra]

Like the ignorance I seen last night, caught the very end of an 8th grade tourney game Hillsboro vs Greenfield ,waiting for the Cavs 8th to play when the refs allowed a kid to pick up a rolling ball with him standing still over the ball, run 2 steps, shoot with .3, not 3, yes .3 took at least 2 seconds, count it. Felt kinda sorry for Hillsboro squad. Refs ran away lol

[Regulator]

Well, let's hear it. How were the refs in tourney this year? District games. No names, just overall view!

[Ironman92]

Like the ignorance I seen last night, caught the very end of an 8th grade tourney game Hillsboro vs Greenfield ,waiting for the Cavs 8th to play when the refs allowed a kid to pick up a rolling ball with him standing still over the ball, run 2 steps, shoot with .3, not 3, yes .3 took at least 2 seconds, count it. Felt kinda sorry for Hillsboro squad. Refs ran away lol

I watched the video....no way was it legal in .3 but it was closer to .3 than 2 or 3 seconds.

Should've had a kid that CB follow orders to not get anywhere close to fouling but be about the volleyball spike line on other half of court forcing ball to be picked up 20 feet back.

[pfloyd]

Well, let's hear it. How were the refs in tourney this year? District games. No names, just overall view!

… I was NOT impressed by the crew that did the Logan Elm vs Warren matchup last night … imo refs are to handle the game in such a way that they aren't what is discussed after the game … the crew "took over the game" for a 4-5 minute stretch … made themselves the "SHOW" … 4 calls in this span of time took the Warren team OUT of "THE" game and "THEIR" game … would it have made a difference in the outcome of the game? doubtful BUT each of the 4 calls were momentum stopping calls, each resulted in point swings/or loss of points on the Warren side … officials should leave their "egos" off the court , call the game in an unbiased fashion … this crew was unprofessionally "yelling" at the WHS players to "get up! that wasn't anything!" … I had very little respect for this crew coming into the game, I have none after watching the "I'm all that" attitude displayed by the crew during this one …

… I know - it sounds like sour grapes … I'm as neutral as they come when it comes basketball … I want to see a great game played by great players and TEAMS on the court … not an officiating crew with their egos on display for whoever is watching … a disappointing performance by self proclaimed " outstanding officials" … no respect for them from this cheap seat guy no matter how much they pound their chests with their "self proclamations" …

… I just want to see consistency on the court by the officials … they can be horrible or good just make the horrible or good calls consistently for the entire game …


… stepping down from my soapbox …

[kingofthegame]

Well, let's hear it. How were the refs in tourney this year? District games. No names, just overall view!

… I was NOT impressed by the crew that did the Logan Elm vs Warren matchup last night … imo refs are to handle the game in such a way that they aren't what is discussed after the game … the crew "took over the game" for a 4-5 minute stretch … made themselves the "SHOW" … 4 calls in this span of time took the Warren team OUT of "THE" game and "THEIR" game … would it have made a difference in the outcome of the game? doubtful BUT each of the 4 calls were momentum stopping calls, each resulted in point swings/or loss of points on the Warren side … officials should leave their "egos" off the court , call the game in an unbiased fashion … this crew was unprofessionally "yelling" at the WHS players to "get up! that wasn't anything!" … I had very little respect for this crew coming into the game, I have none after watching the "I'm all that" attitude displayed by the crew during this one …

… I know - it sounds like sour grapes … I'm as neutral as they come when it comes basketball … I want to see a great game played by great players and TEAMS on the court … not an officiating crew with their egos on display for whoever is watching … a disappointing performance by self proclaimed " outstanding officials" … no respect for them from this cheap seat guy no matter how much they pound their chests with their "self proclamations" …

… I just want to see consistency on the court by the officials … they can be horrible or good just make the horrible or good calls consistently for the entire game …


… stepping down from my soapbox …

That post illustrates my point in creating this thread. It seems this is becoming more the norm rather than the exception. The vocal, nasty tone with the overbearing attitude is just terrible.

[bbjunky81]

Ego's being displayed by officials is definitely becoming more of the norm. It's a shame, really, acting like that to young men. I don't know the names of very many officials as I'm not too concerned about that, but I do know there's a few from Scioto County that walk on the floor and try to be as arrogant as possible. Why? I don't know. Perhaps they should understand that the people in the seats are their to see the GAME and the KIDS, not an overly arrogant referee.

Coming off of that, there definitely were some good refs. Even a few great ones. Over half of the games I watched were officiated well. Just hate that a certain few can give referees a bad name.