Peebles vs. Africentric Regional Semi 3/11

4thgoal
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Re: Peebles vs. Africentric Regional Semi 3/11

Post by 4thgoal »

athens78 wrote:Will they need crowd control for the 107 fans that will be there tonight? lol at least they get to play in the best site in Ohio....the Convo.
It will probably be more quiet than an OU men's practice! :mrgreen: Tonight will be an instance where having a split session will not result in more money being made. If the D4 regional final with these teams was played along with either of the games tomorrow, there would be more people watching it and they would at least sell more concessions.


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Blackcobra
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Re: Peebles vs. Africentric Regional Semi 3/11

Post by Blackcobra »

I cannot see Peebles or any Rural schools ever getting past a regional final in this modern basketball era. I doesn't matter what lower division they lower their program to. Coaches and their staff in most schools say "were gonna ramp it up this year, our kids are going to play 5 open gyms a week", "we added a private school to our schedule" and think magically their gonna improve. My favorite is "we have started a lifting program", usually led by some individual with no evidence of expertise usually and overzealous ex athlete/ coach or trainer that tapes ankles etc P.S. in those awesome open gyms your kids are playing against Big Tony, Bob, Blake, etc that didn't make it out of the Districts back in the day. If you can play, you can play. private schools have the ability to lure more of those kids and their parents to their school. That's the way it is.


sinjinian
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Re: Peebles vs. Africentric Regional Semi 3/11

Post by sinjinian »

IMO, most points on this debate are valid and I think most of the complaints on this forum are based on racism. If Peebles or Fairfield would have lost to Newark Catholic or Fairfield Christian rather than Africentric and Harvest Prep, the debate wouldn't be nearly as spirited.


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Blackcobra
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Re: Peebles vs. Africentric Regional Semi 3/11

Post by Blackcobra »

Decent point, don't feel its true racism, most are upset because they are trying to grasp the concept that cant make a shooter an athlete, but you can make an athlete a shooter.


sinjinian
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Re: Peebles vs. Africentric Regional Semi 3/11

Post by sinjinian »

Well said, but we all know what "athlete" is generally synonymous with.


chiefs
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Re: Peebles vs. Africentric Regional Semi 3/11

Post by chiefs »

samuelk wrote:IMO, most points on this debate are valid and I think most of the complaints on this forum are based on racism. If Peebles or Fairfield would have lost to Newark Catholic or Fairfield Christian rather than Africentric and Harvest Prep, the debate wouldn't be nearly as spirited.
I give you a lot of props for saying something I think some of us were thinking. I think some people have more prejudice against the private schools that have non-white kids because of the poor stereotype "these black kids aren't Catholic , don't have parents that can support private school tuition" etc


Charge
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Re: Peebles vs. Africentric Regional Semi 3/11

Post by Charge »

samuelk wrote:IMO, most points on this debate are valid and I think most of the complaints on this forum are based on racism. If Peebles or Fairfield would have lost to Newark Catholic or Fairfield Christian rather than Africentric and Harvest Prep, the debate wouldn't be nearly as spirited.



I think it is racism to falsely accuse people of racism. I have read on other forums where people were hammering Newark Catholic in baseball. I guess that is racism too? Those people are discriminating against their religious beliefs? People are talking about the fairness between private and public schools it has nothing to do with racism. Instead of pulling the race card give us a valid point on the fairness on the topic of public vs private? I'm sure people from Peebles would be equally as upset if Harvest Prep beat them.


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Re: Peebles vs. Africentric Regional Semi 3/11

Post by Charge »

The FC Fan wrote:
samuelk wrote:IMO, most points on this debate are valid and I think most of the complaints on this forum are based on racism. If Peebles or Fairfield would have lost to Newark Catholic or Fairfield Christian rather than Africentric and Harvest Prep, the debate wouldn't be nearly as spirited.
I give you a lot of props for saying something I think some of us were thinking. I think some people have more prejudice against the private schools that have non-white kids because of the poor stereotype "these black kids aren't Catholic , don't have parents that can support private school tuition" etc




FC Fan you are giving props because you can't give a valid point in the debate between the fairness of private vs public. So lets divert it to a race game. Lets hear your valid point in the fairness of private vs public? This is about private vs public not race so give us valid points and quit trying to divert the topic to something it is not.


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Re: Peebles vs. Africentric Regional Semi 3/11

Post by Ushoot2Ishoot3 »

Theres no debate, Private system is better and will always have a better selection of players is one school, you cannot have 5-10 college level players in one public school consistently, Private schools actively attract that. Since this is a Peebles Forum their team is a good example of many of the past posts. Why would a top notch student athletes parents want to move their kid to Peebles? No jobs, high welfare, Drugs just like the city and a lackluster education system? Send them to Private school!!!!


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Re: Peebles vs. Africentric Regional Semi 3/11

Post by sinjinian »

A valid point in the debate on the fairness between private and public? There should be no debate on the fairness issue because its not fair and I have yet to comment on that. IN MY OPINION, any team is going to be upset losing a tournament game regardless of their opponent but this particular debate we are having about public and private in a topic called "Peebles vs Africentric" has an underlying reason. I agree that Peebles wold have been just as upset if they had lost to Harvest Prep but that's not the point at all. As I said before, if Peebles or Fairfield had lost to a private all white team, IN MY OPINION, we wouldn't be talking about public vs private quite so much.


Charge
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Re: Peebles vs. Africentric Regional Semi 3/11

Post by Charge »

samuelk wrote:A valid point in the debate on the fairness between private and public? There should be no debate on the fairness issue because its not fair and I have yet to comment on that. IN MY OPINION, any team is going to be upset losing a tournament game regardless of their opponent but this particular debate we are having about public and private in a topic called "Peebles vs Africentric" has an underlying reason. I agree that Peebles wold have been just as upset if they had lost to Harvest Prep but that's not the point at all. As I said before, if Peebles or Fairfield had lost to a private all white team, IN MY OPINION, we wouldn't be talking about public vs private quite so much.



What are you basing your opinion on? Are you labeling the people from Peebles? I am Italian and my son was referred to as athletic growing up. Was that a code I was missing? IMO I think you are the one that sounds racist by labeling people and making assumptions that if a team had been all white. WOW!


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Re: Peebles vs. Africentric Regional Semi 3/11

Post by sinjinian »

We can go on and on with this but we'll just have to agree to disagree.


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Re: Peebles vs. Africentric Regional Semi 3/11

Post by chiefs »

Charge wrote:
The FC Fan wrote:
samuelk wrote:IMO, most points on this debate are valid and I think most of the complaints on this forum are based on racism. If Peebles or Fairfield would have lost to Newark Catholic or Fairfield Christian rather than Africentric and Harvest Prep, the debate wouldn't be nearly as spirited.
I give you a lot of props for saying something I think some of us were thinking. I think some people have more prejudice against the private schools that have non-white kids because of the poor stereotype "these black kids aren't Catholic , don't have parents that can support private school tuition" etc




FC Fan you are giving props because you can't give a valid point in the debate between the fairness of private vs public. So lets divert it to a race game. Lets hear your valid point in the fairness of private vs public? This is about private vs public not race so give us valid points and quit trying to divert the topic to something it is not.
Too many people try to equivocate fairness as an excuse for not being good enough. Does anyone here actually think if you removed the private schools, state championships all the sudden come to SE Ohio? I think way too many people are too proud, or too blind, to admit their public school team is good, but _is not_ state title caliber. I've read this board for a while and yes, I am cognizant of the problems that plague SE Ohio, but when it's not private schools, it's something like "they're in a better socioeconomic state than we are" (see Marion Local / Trimble). I was glad to see Reedsville girls won, they had an excellent squad and they brought a lot of pride to Meigs Co and surrounding areas. If they lost, however, the private school debate would just go on ad naus, ad infin.

Re: Newark Catholic, most people generally don't have a problem with NC because NC doesn't have a track history of recruiting. The private school aspect that serves as a benefit to the Wave is the relative sustainability in the program. Regarding race, it's not really mentioned on here, but over on JJH it's both directly and subtlety suggested that the "recruited kids" are the black ones (as one poster infamously said regarding a Columbus catholic school: "well I don't know any black Catholics").

I recognize SE Ohio has challenges that has some adverse effects on its schools / athletic programs and I think that does create a disparity between them and *most schools, not just private*, but getting rid of the privates doesn't fix the problems and it just waters down the playing field. Even if privates were removed, the whole socioeconomic issue still gets brought up and eventually becomes more of an issue than private schools in the first place. And there is no panacea to that divide; Mercer County is far different from say, Gallia County. So if hypothetical SE vs NW Ohio public schools finals happen and the SE just doesn't win, then what? Do people start blaming the perceived quality of life differences? IDK, hopefully not but not every school can win and honestly not every school is even good enough.


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eagles73Taylor
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Re: Peebles vs. Africentric Regional Semi 3/11

Post by eagles73Taylor »

Your last sentence speaks volumes, when we have teams that are good enough to win they sometimes run into those powerhouse private schools that have a distinct advantage. We are then told that our kids dont work hard enough, dont have good enough coaches, or werent really good enough to win anyway! Its funny that people see the advantage, but dont want anything done about it!.


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Chieftan
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Re: Peebles vs. Africentric Regional Semi 3/11

Post by Chieftan »

The fact remains that an imbalance exists!

For the 4th consecutive year, the OHSAA has proposed a new competitive balance referendum to be voted on by 825 high school principals in May 2014 because they recognize an imbalance exists. The commissioner said it is the best and fairest proposal they have had yet, aimed at leveling the playing field between public and private schools. Who knows if it will work but it implies they know a change is needed.

If passed, the new proposal -- which is similar to the 2013 proposal that was narrowly rejected by 19 votes -- will require schools to submit to the OHSAA their team rosters of student-athletes in grades 9 through 12 and to further provide more information about each student. Students in public schools will be subject to modifying factors if their parents do not reside in the district or the student has not been continuously enrolled in the district since seventh grade, and students in private schools will be subject to the same modifying factors if they did not attend that school’s designated “feeder” school(s) continuously since seventh grade or have not been continuously enrolled in the same system of education. If approved, it is anticipated the proposal will become effective for the 2016-17 school year.

After reading all of these posts, I still do not understand why some people do not see the disparity and the need for change! Its not all private schools but a few bad apples spoil the lot. First of all, what would race have to do with it? No one said or implied that Africentric had an unfair advantage because they are black kids, but rather that they are all top-notch athletes hand-picked and recruited from all around a large metropolitan area going on to play D1 college ball. Has nothing to do with race and I give no props to someone so small-minded who resorts to race-baiting to distract from the real issue. OHSAA gets it...that's why they are trying to fix it....!
ushoot2Ishoot3 wrote:Theres no debate, Private system is better and will always have a better selection of players is one school, you cannot have 5-10 college level players in one public school consistently, Private schools actively attract that. Since this is a Peebles Forum their team is a good example of many of the past posts. Why would a top notch student athletes parents want to move their kid to Peebles? No jobs, high welfare, Drugs just like the city and a lackluster education system? Send them to Private school!!!!


1. Private system is better and will always have a better selection of players (Correct, they are not limited to a geographic area… so logically they have a greater chance of assembling top-caliber athletes when the selection pool is so much larger; a distinct advantage thus proving your point)

Private schools operate similarly to colleges: charge tuition, offer scholarships, limiting enrollment and selection and recruiting top athletes. OHSAA has had to bird-dog some of these schools because of their unethical behavior in trying to load their programs to gain undue advantage. It is an epidemic in non-public schools hence the need for the new competitive balance.

2. Private schools actively attract 5-10 college level players in one school where public schools do not
(Correct, public schools do not seek to attract or recruit athletes to move to their school, its high school not college, you play with the kids you went to school with since Kindergarten, that ride your bus, and live in your town.)

3. So WHY would a top notch athlete want to move their kids to Peebles after all its a $hithole you say? (Therein lies the problem…public schools do not actively seek out top notch athletes to "move" in or "transfer" in to their school, that’s what private schools do....no sir, you play with what you got!!!! That's the point!!!

Let’s face it there are four non-public high school teams comprised of college level players in the final four who could probably beat most NAIA college teams. Imagine how much money OHSAA has lost this year due to the empty seats.

Lastly, the elitist undertone of some posters regarding the work ethic of private school athletes being stronger than public school athletes goes right to the very heart of the problem. Public school kids have the same heart, dedication, desire and work ethic; just not the same advantages and they are no less deserving than those who pay for their education.

We could assemble all the best athletes across the district and take a loaded team all the way, but what is the fun in that?

Maybe its our downfall here in SE Ohio but we have School Pride and Loyalty, Tradition (2nd & 3rd generation players), not to mention the immense fan following and community support from not just your town but the whole county. Kids in SE Ohio arent going to move away from their school to go to a private school just so they can win a state title. Its about playing on a team with your classmates and friends like your parents and grandparents did, rather than individual recognition and personal accolades. Time to level the playing field!! Tell your principals to vote!!


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Re: Peebles vs. Africentric Regional Semi 3/11

Post by Ushoot2Ishoot3 »

I agree chief except the part about Peebles being a"$@?!hole" thats extreme, I would like to see the best kids in a district get on one team if not just 1 time. That would be fun.


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