Running thread and discussion on this. One of the best DII sectionals anywhere.
Current records:
1. Logan Elm (13-1)
2. Warren Local (11-3)
3. Athens (11-3)
4. Sheridan (9-4)
5. Vinton County (7-5)
6. Meigs (6-4)
7. Marietta (6-6)
8. Fairfield Union (5-8)
9. New Lex (4-8)
The top three are all scary good. Elm beat Athens head to head by a point early in the year when Athens was fresh off the gridiron. Their only loss was to a team in a tournament in Florida. Athens other two losses were to St. Vincent St. Mary's on the road, a game they were in til the end, and in the Florida tournament. Warren lost early to a really good Portsmouth team, lost @ defending State champion Watterson, and on a tip in at the buzzer to Wheeling Park. The top seed is probably going to come down to the winner of the Athens/Warren game on February 3rd in the Warrior dome. Of the three teams, Athens is the most talented and no seniors play. Warren has three guys that will play d2 or higher college basketball, and Logan Elm is easily the most disciplined and for my money the best coached.
How the seeding plays out will depend upon everyone else in the sectional. Sheridan and Vinton are good basketball teams. Vinton is consistently in the district. They are young but are stringing wins together and are really well coached (Combs). Meigs was a district team in DIII last year and return sophomore Kaleb Sheets who is a really good player. Marietta has former Warren assistant Mark Duckworth coaching now and has two monster sized post players in Brandon Riley and John Wood. They have no guard play so it will be tough for them. Fairfield Union has the Barr kid at point, they beat New Lex by 20 early in the year but the panthers are coming off an upset over DI Tri-Valley last night.
With the format only two teams get out to the district so that #1 seed is highly sought after. The 4/5 teams (Sheridan/Vinton) will want it to be the "worst" of the three because that is who they would play to get out in round two. I'd guess them both to vote for Logan Elm. Elm will obviously vote for themselves as well. Your 8/9 seeds (FU and NL) will probably vote for Elm as well because they will play the pig tail game for the right to play the one. That will essentially assure Elm of the #1 seed, not because teams think they are the best of the big three but because teams think they are the least scary of the big three. LOL.
The 6 and 7 teams will play the 2 and 3 seeded teams in round one on their side of the bracket. Obviously they are going to vote what they actually feel to be the correct order. The February 3rd Athens/Warren game basically decides who is the #2 and who is the #3 seed and sets up a re-match between the two in a sectional final, IMO. That is a shame because these are the two best teams in this sectional and two of the best in the state and one will go home really, really early. The only way this won't happen is if some of these coaches have a change of heart and want to be straight shooters or if Elm happens to fall to someone like Circleville before February 9th.
This is why everyone should have the super sectional format that the Eastern District adopted this year and the central district has had for years. It would allow your better teams to pick their own path.
Add anything you want, this is my two cents. No kids in class today (first semester reward day) so this is my entertainment.
Nice rundown of where things likely stand. I'm also in favor of an open draw to reward the best teams and let them pick their path. You can make it work by using all the sectional sites to cut down on travel. Example - Warren and Gallipolis play at Jackson instead of Logan or SE as is currently done in D2.
1. Warren Local (12-3)
2. Athens (12-3)
3. Logan Elm (13-1)
4. Sheridan (10-4)
5. Vinton County (8-5)
6. Meigs (7-6)
7. Marietta (6-7)
8. Fairfield Union (6-9)
9. New Lex (4-10)
I pushed Warren and Athens ahead of Logan Elm because of SOS. Warren beating AP #6 Bishop Hartley on a neutral court and then going to Portsmouth and beating the Trojans is worthy of the sectional #1 spot if not the COVETED PFloyd Elite 8 #1
Logan Elm has defeated Athens, Washington Court House, Circleville, Bloom-Carroll and Teays Valley, which have a combined record of 54-17. Then add in the Florida Tournament and a game with Zane Trace up ahead. Yep, no strength of schedule. :122249
bman wrote:Logan Elm has defeated Athens, Washington Court House, Circleville, Bloom-Carroll and Teays Valley, which have a combined record of 54-17. Then add in the Florida Tournament and a game with Zane Trace up ahead. Yep, no strength of schedule. :122249
I've seen Circleville and bloom Carroll play. Athens was up 30 on cville and i saw bloom Carroll play Logan. They are just as bad. Zane trace would be a good win. Msl and the tvc are a push this year. Athens non conference is a lot stronger, Lucasville valley, SVSM, an warren. Warren's schedule is very brutal
bman wrote:Logan Elm has defeated Athens, Washington Court House, Circleville, Bloom-Carroll and Teays Valley, which have a combined record of 54-17. Then add in the Florida Tournament and a game with Zane Trace up ahead. Yep, no strength of schedule. :122249
Circleville, Bloom Carrol and Teays Valley you've got to be joking using SOS in the same sentence. The MSL is weak as is the TVC but Athens went out and put a nice schedule together. Are we to punish Warren and Athens for playing a tuff slate of games? Beating a team from Florida doesn't automatically count as a quality win. I know 93Dog would like to think so. The very team that beat LE lost to Portsmouth. Warren has beaten several teams that will be conference champs, state ranked or both. Cols Bishop Hartley (AP#6), Valley (SOC II), Fort Frye (PVC), Portsmouth (SEAOL) and FCA. Add tough losses to Cols Bishop Watterson, WV Wheeling Park and Portsmouth and I can't see how Logan Elm would get #1 over Warren based on SOS. Waren and Athens both stepped out of the district and stepped up their game. LE is still trying to ride that one lonely win in December over an Athens team barely outta football. I'm sure Warren or Athens have NO Problem playing LE. Cant really believe LE wants any part of either one come sectionals.
While Logan Elm gets ripped apart constantly, I'd like to point out that they have 8 non league games (3 in FL, ZT, Athens, WCH, Chillicothe, county rival Westfall) and not 14 (Warren) or 12 (Athens). It's a heck of a lot tougher to schedule up when you're locked into 14 games already. I'm not sure how the teams in FL were, but Athens, WCH, and ZT are obviously high quality opponents. LE and Chillicothe started a home and home last year, which is after Chillicothe had been winning district titles like crazy. Westfall is a county rival and I doubt they would drop a 50 year rivalry for one year.
So keep beating your chests about SOS being better, even though they clearly should be. I give Athens and Warren credit for filling up their schedules with top teams, but you gotta remember that some leagues feature more than 5 or 6 members and it's much more difficult for schools to step up in class with contracts.
dani ... I try and not bring up the SOS too much - and I'm not sure I'm really beating my chest about it ... To me Logan Elm is a terrific team, well coached and they can shoot the lights out ... I now they're good, I watched them first hand beat the Bulldogs on our home floor ... What's happened now though is Warren's WINS are starting to eclipse what both Athens and Logan Elm have done, it's not so much about SCHEDULE - but VICTORIES ... If Athens can't knock them off Feb. 3rd, I'm not sure they will be denied the No. 1 seed ... And that's coming from a guy who is not the biggest Warren fan in the world to say the least ... lol
Momentum my friend. Not many want to get in front of a downhill locomotive. The BIG BAD BLUE TRAIN is rolling down the tracks my friend. Better get them Bullpuppies outta the way b4 they get ran over. Lol
Last edited by WarriorBlue on Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
WarriorBlue wrote:Momentum my friend. Not many want to get in front of a downhill locomotive. The BIG BAD BLUE TRAIN is rolling down the tracks my friend. Better get them Bullpuppies outta the way b4 they get ran over. Lol
You do realize we are often labeled 'THE A-TRAIN' ... It's not like we're rolling into Vincent crammed in a Prius!
Seriously Warren has several more challenges ahead. I just love to pull 93Sog's chain. F the Warriors can win out and can defeat Athens then not getting that #1 seed would be a travesty. All that is a tall order when playing with that big X on your back. Early in the season I don't believe this newest edition of Warriors had fully embraced what that ment. Every since the 1st of the year they have jelled and are playing pretty close to where they were at tourney time last season. Last years team was better defensively but Warren Warriord 2014 has more offensive weapons.
Say what you will but it will not come down to Athens/Warren or any other game. As New Lex/Sheridan said it will come down to where and who coaches want to see and then how they vote. Anymore tournament normally only following the course for 4/5 and on down. Once Norm was undefeated at Chesapeake and wanted to be the 3 or 4 seed because he was looking down the road at who he would play in the district or knew at a 3 or 4 he was still going to get out of the sectional. So as far as 1,2 or 3 schedule doesn't matter, it's where the other coaches want to be or better yet who they want to see in the next round.
athens78 wrote:it's where the other coaches want to be or better yet who they want to see in the next round.
With only 2 teams coming out of the Logan sectional, I highly doubt any of them are 'looking' to see who they may want in the next round.
The 4/5 perhaps may be looking at who they would rather vote #1 ... but that's about it.
And I have talked to some of these DII coaches right after the draw and they all seem to say the other coaches in that room are pretty reasonable guys ... I don't know how many times coach Skinner has praised his fellow coaches in that room - most generally they get it right. Now, I can't speak for other rooms/sectional draw's - but the DII Logan seems to have been pretty accurate over the years.
If Warren wins out and then beats Athens, there may be a case for the No. 1. If Warren loses to Athens, a team that LE beat, and LE wins out, LE deserves the No. 1 seed. I know folks want to bring up it was an early game in the season, and there is some truth in that statement, but it still counts for something. Athens is going to have trouble filling its schedule if beating them in December gets no cred, because there is no reason to play the game then for an opponent.
As for the slamming of Bloom-Carroll, that's just plain silly. They were without their best player for almost the first half of the season, including against Logan. Bloom-Carroll is a consistent Sweet 16 contender, went to overtime in the D3 regional championship game last season and also beat that FCA team head-to-head. I know Bloom-Carroll is a different team this season, but so is FCA. If we are going to pump our chest about FCA or Fort Frye, Bloom-Carroll is at least compatible to them.
I'd also note that the MSL took a little ripping. Our bottom four teams are struggling, I'll readily admit that, there are some pretty good players, like Jordan Barr for Fairfield Union, that can maybe pull an upset if they have a standout game and the other team may be off. Warren and Athens are also playing some weak opponents in the SEOAL or TVC and/or in the new league due to contractural agreements or a team, like Ironton, being down this year. I'll take our top four teams - Logan Elm, Bloom-Carroll, Circleville and Teays Valley and put them against the top four of any other league in SE Ohio and be confident our teams can compete.
I'd also add that when a lot of teams in SE Ohio were racing out the door to get off of Athens' schedule that Logan Elm and Circleville are playing Athens. There is an SOS argument there.
Last edited by bman on Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
athens78 wrote:Say what you will but it will not come down to Athens/Warren or any other game. As New Lex/Sheridan said it will come down to where and who coaches want to see and then how they vote. Anymore tournament normally only following the course for 4/5 and on down. Once Norm was undefeated at Chesapeake and wanted to be the 3 or 4 seed because he was looking down the road at who he would play in the district or knew at a 3 or 4 he was still going to get out of the sectional. So as far as 1,2 or 3 schedule doesn't matter, it's where the other coaches want to be or better yet who they want to see in the next round.
Until the good ole boys step up and stop this seeding nonsense things like you mention will go on. Why not be like the rest of the state and let them place themselves on the bracket. Until then the poor teams and buddies rule who plays who.
As for the SOS argument, Athens argues with playing Akron SVSM and Warren with Bishop Watterson that those were tough games and games that teams in SE Ohio couldn't beat. I agree with that statement 100 percent. So let's add Akron SVSM to LE's loss count to compare them to Athens or Watterson to LE's to compare them to Watterson. LE still has less losses than either Athens or Warren, and now has the SOS cred argument. I'm throwing all out-of-state wins or losses out of the argument for now because we don't have a favorable way of comparing. I did notice the argument of well Portsmouth beat a team LE lost to in the Florida tournament. That comes down to matchups. Not saying LE would beat Portsmouth, but going against a FLCA team that went 7-4, 7-1, 6-10, 6-8, and 6-6 with its starters in that tournament was a tough matchup for a team that's tallest player is 6-2.
