Public vs. Private - one more time

[Gray Fighting Tiger]

Leveling the playing field: Wayne County superintendents take aim at public vs. private

http://www.the-daily-record.com/news/article/4734956

I have seen dozens of threads on the topic of private vs. public over the years. What it boils down to, in my opinion, is whether some schools have an unfair advantage over the rest. The Wayne County supers are attempting to find out what the rest of the state thinks; and what, if anything, to do about it.

[Pepsiman]

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=67908

[my2cents]

The worst example I have seen of public vs private is the Oak Hill loss to Regina. Affectionatly known as Regina State. Usually the biggest advantages show up in the smaller divisions where a private school with small numbers can recruit athletes in a specific sport and dominate. Regina has won (and don't quote me) like 7 of the last 10 state championships, and have placed 70 some girls in D1 colleges in the past 10 years. I read that last years team even had a girl that lived in Canada. Beside the fact that they are a mostly white school but recruit most black players, and pay their tuition to attend the school. Sounds fair to me.

[Malcontent]

March 19th 2005 North College Hill vs Ironton in basketball at The Schott.. Public vs Public or should I say Public vs AAU.

[eagles73Taylor]

There is one part of this argument that you will never get me to agree on being a level playing field between public/private/parochial and that is enrollment control! When the OHSAA sees it for what it is, an unfair advantage in playing down in competition, there will be no level playing field.

Everyone can recruit and it is perfectly legal to do so. If I want to approach a student athlete from another district and give them my best talk about how my home district can get them a quality education and whatever else about our athletics is perfectly fine. Now, if I offer them something such as compensation or benefits for transferring, there is the problem, but only for publics. Privates can offer up whatever financial aid package they want. Now is it ethical to chase after other student athletes, that is another debate! lol

Enrollment control, by the use of tuition in my opinion can mean as much as 30 percent of a population that would be UNWELCOME in the private/parochial schools, whereas they must be enrolled in the public school system. A multiplier is the only way to even things up.

Yeah, come on hit me with the open enrollment, this has helped publics, but usually only in urban areas! lol

[jeepmadness]

If I were still playing I wouldn't want anything changed. Nothing better than to march right throught a couple private schools to win a state championship. Just ask the Jeeps. Even in 04 and 05, we put away a couple private schools. Why eliminate the competition. If someone wants to load up let them load up. Doesnt guarantee anything.

[eagles73Taylor]

Just load yourself up, right? LOL I do believe a big piece of the puzzle for the jeeps was a very nice guard moving in. The previous year they were beat by a private in the state semis the year before correct? And yes, Africentric fits the private mold moreso than the public!

[Hopper 11]

Good luck to Wayne County superintendents getting the playing field leveled. I don't think it will ever happen though, I played in the state championship 28 years ago for a little public school who got beat by a private school. The only changes I really see since then is there are now four divisions instead of three and there are more public schools trying to load up. I guess they are going with the old saying if you can't beat them then join them. I just wonder how many non private and public schools without transfers has won the state. I think now that you have ESPN doing high school games it will even be harder to level the playing field. Something that has always been a red flag for me with private schools is how a players family can afford to leave their employment and relocate for their child to play high school basketball. In alot of cases these kids are moving across the state or coming from another state. Where most of the public school transfers are in the same area so the parents don't have to change employment. I personally like seeing players that stay loyal to their schools and thats why I always root for the underdogs.

[jeepmadness]

Eagles73,

we would have one it just as easily without waginger. It would not of mattered with or without him.

[Jim Mora]

Public school just need to take care of the basketball, we will be alright

[bengalfan76]

Disagree with the assumption that S. Webster would have won without transfers.
Recent State Champions in SE Ohio
Chillicothe- Transfers
S. Webster- Transfers
Oak Hill- Transfers

If you have a a transfer that does not officially move into your district then you should have to use the private school multipier also.

[G.W.A.]

Eagles73,

we would have one it just as easily without waginger. It would not of mattered with or without him.

Have to disagree with this staement, although d4 was a little down that year, he was still team MVP.

[Westfan]

Yeah public and private schools recruit. We know it happens. But is the field level?

Rules were recently put in to require a public school kid to live in the system or sit out a year if he/she goes open enrollment after the start of their freshman year. Is their a rule for the private schools? No, Transfer whenever/wherever you want.

Can a public school control their enrollment by denying kids admission to play in small school divisions with big division talent? No Can a private schools? Yes

Can private schools offer cash encentives (free tuition) to an otherwise very expensive education, that by the way isn't available to all the kids? Yes Where you already pay for your public education, can public schools offer tax rebates to transfers to their school? No

Man the field's level isn't it?

[Hoggy]

There is one part of this argument that you will never get me to agree on being a level playing field between public/private/parochial and that is enrollment control! When the OHSAA sees it for what it is, an unfair advantage in playing down in competition, there will be no level playing field.

Enrollment control, by the use of tuition in my opinion can mean as much as 30 percent of a population that would be UNWELCOME in the private/parochial schools, whereas they must be enrolled in the public school system. A multiplier is the only way to even things up.

Very valid points and I agree 100% with you!

[Hardwood]

^^^^^^^^Yes it is. The parents of private school children are DOUBLE DIPPED! They pay for the public schools in the form of property taxes (which do not benefit privates) and then they pay for the privates in the form of tuition.

Much talk in recent years has produced no action concerning vouchers from the state for private school families without action being taken. Dont look for any change in the area of vouchers any more than you will see a change in excluding private schools from OHSAA championships by making them play for separate championships.

I keep hearing a lot of rumors about scholarship money appearing for private school athletes along with relaxing academic standards. But what you know (if you know) and what you can prove are two different things. And I have yet to see one private school that has a 1.0 min GPA to be eligible for sports.

Do you really think the parents of the player that played at North College Hill and Huntington got DOUBLE DIPPED?

[toast]

The whole idea behind public education is that "everyone" contribute whether you utilize the public schools or not. Parents who send their children to private schools have made a "choice". That doesn't mean they get a free pass on contributing to "public" education. 90% of the children in America attend public schools.

As a few others mentioned: Private schools have a huge advantage because they can pick and choose who they educate. In short, they can avoid some of the most challenging and difficult students. As a result, in many cases they can create elite institutions which in turn makes it a whole lot easier to "attract" top notch students and athletes.

Comparing private schools to public schools is like comparing apples to oranges. Lots of differences.

[toast]

Like most people I believe that every child should have access to a quality education regardless of where they live and where they were born. And yes that means everyone contributes whether or not they have children in public schools or even have children of their own. Thank goodness the idea of common good is alive and well in this country.

Like you I believe there should be less reliance on property taxes to fund our public schools. But a big chuck of the money to fund public schools does come from other taxes. There should be less reliance on property taxes and our governor is trying to remedy that with having the state contribute a larger portion of the needed funds.

I doubt 30% of Americans support vouchers for private schools. If you're going to accept public moneys you shouldn't be able to pick and choose who you educate.

[Hardwood]

Since as you state the property tax is not used exclusively for eduation, then it is indeed beholden on the citizenry to pay their fair share. But you cannot disagree with the simple math that proves that those who send their children to private schools pay TWICE in the form of A. taxes, and B. tuition. That hardly seems fair.

How do you know that all people who send their kids to private schools own property? How do you know they all pay tuition? I'm not sure what your saying has to do with a level playing field? The field will never be level as long as there are different rules for both. Here is a question I always had " I asume people send their children to private schools and home school them because they aren't satisfied with public schools." So why are they satisfied with public sports? I guess as far as privates been taxed " The way I see it is they are playing public sports in public places." So why shouldn't they be taxed?

[jeepmadness]

Webster was picked to win it before anyone knew about waginger. Plus we were winning tournament games by massive margins 30 and 40 plus. Waginger wasn't scoring 30 and 40. I just want to say we shouldn't caudil are kids and make it easier just to win state champs. That all people are doing. Handicaping our kids.

[Hardwood]

Webster was picked to win it before anyone knew about waginger. Plus we were winning tournament games by massive margins 30 and 40 plus. Waginger wasn't scoring 30 and 40. I just want to say we shouldn't caudil are kids and make it easier just to win state champs. That all people are doing. Handicaping our kids.

I will have to disagree with you , he was one of the best defensive players I ever saw play. Take him away and all teams had to do was stop your post player, not sure you could have got the ball up against the press without his ball handling. You didn't win all your games by 30 and 40. He was always up there in points too. I don't think people want it easier, they just want it level. You won it with a transfer and you didn't before he came. Say what you want but that is the bottom line. Trying to take credit away from one of the best players I have seen play isn't going to change things.