Running Up the Score: When is Enough Enough?

[jchitwood]

I've seen this subject get thrown around anytime a team gets beat by 25+, so why not let it live in its own topic?

One school of thought says: "This is varsity basketball, not peewee, and we all started with zeroes on the scoreboard."

The other says: "These are kids, and there's no need to rub it in."

One thing's for sure, everyone's against it when it's their team getting beat by 30!

Personally, I think it's okay for teams to press late in the game, because teams only get so many minutes a week to play against another team, and not their bench.

[TribeManiac10]

And so it begins.....

[91blue14]

no need to press if your up thirty

[eaglefan1]

If my backups are in, im going to keep doing the same thing i've been doin all game, because the second team needs there reps too.

[4thgoal]

I would say if you are up 25+ in the 4th, there is no need to press. Maybe have the subs playing a trapping D, but pressing when you are up that much is not proving anything. If the game is that lopsided, you can get those same reps in practice against your 2nd team or JV. Just my .02...

[jimmy chipwood]

My personal opinion is that a coach should attempt to control the score of a "blowout" by subbing and changing defenses. In high school basketball a team usually gets beat by 30+ for one reason - they cant handle a press or trapping defense and turn the ball over repeatedly and give up layups and transition baskets. If a team is up 30+ in the second half a coach with a little class and respect for the coaching profession will call a press off and drop back into a quarter court man to man or zone defense to slow the tempo of the game down and reduce the opposing teams turnovers. However, I dont believe in telling your subs to stop shooting and playing hard on offense.

[Steely Dan]

My personal opinion is that a coach should attempt to control the score of a "blowout" by subbing and changing defenses. In high school basketball a team usually gets beat by 30+ for one reason - they cant handle a press or trapping defense and turn the ball over repeatedly and give up layups and transition baskets. If a team is up 30+ in the second half a coach with a little class and respect for the coaching profession will call a press off and drop back into a quarter court man to man or zone defense to slow the tempo of the game down and reduce the opposing teams turnovers. However, I dont believe in telling your subs to stop shooting and playing hard on offense.

Good post. I couldn't agree more. And that applies to both boys and girls HS basketball.

[datchillicav]

So the winning team should get their "work" in on offense but not defense? Isn't defense what wins championships?

What if the winning team blows out everyone on their schedule(as many teams with state title aspirations do) and they don't play "their" style of defense and work on improving on that end of the floor anytime they are up. Now let's say that in 10 of the 20 regular season games, they don't press the entire 2nd half and don't play their starters because they are winning by so much. That would add up to 160 minutes of "Game" situation "practice" that is lost over the course of the season. Now lets say that that team runs into a team in the state semis or finals or whatever that can handle their press and they lose by 3 points. Maybe if they would have spent 120 of those 160 minutes of "off" time working on continually improving their defense even though the other team wasn't good, they would have been able to win that game. So the question is, what is more unfair. Is it more unfair to the kids of OTHER teams if you "run up" the score by keeping your starters in and/or continuing to run your offense AND defense or is it more unfair to the kids on YOUR team to not continue to improve and possibly cost them down the road?

I do not know the answer and I don't even know if there is an answer. I do know one thing though. These are high school kids who only have so much time to commit to getting better at their sport. They are not pro athletes who can literally spend all day at the facilities shooting, lifting, and studying basketball. With that said, as a coach of high school or collegiate athletics, you must take EVERY opportunity and EVERY second of EVERY day that is given to you to get better. Wasting valuable opportunities to compete will often come back to bite you. I could not live with myself if I cost my kids the chance to get better and it cost them a game down the line.

It may be the toughest situation as a coach of any sport to be up by a huge amount because those questions all need answered on the spot. As a coach who is down a lot or in a close game you know what to do but if you are up by a lot you are almost in a lose lose situation because if you don't "run it up" you are costing your team a chance to compete and get better as other teams are doing. If you do "run it up" everyone gets mad at you and people question your character which at best, makes you feel bad and the kids from the other team feel bad, and at the worst undermines your authority and/or respect with your kids, assistants, parents, or administrators. Damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of situation.

As I said, I don't know the answer and I hate if my team gets beaten by 30. I do however get a little mad when my team only plays a half of "hard" basketball.

[Yossarian]

The situation that gets me is up 25 mid to late 4th quarter, some if not most of the starters in the game, and still trapping or pressing. No class.

[ManitouDan]

witnessed that in the portsmouth-ND foundation game. I know portsmouth has a short bench and could'nt remove all their starters but the heat was still being applied heavily (some pressing) in the 4th quarter when they were ahead by 30-35 plus. Not sure why either . I guess you only know how to play one way thats the way you roll.

[boomer633]

My personal opinion is that a coach should attempt to control the score of a "blowout" by subbing and changing defenses. In high school basketball a team usually gets beat by 30+ for one reason - they cant handle a press or trapping defense and turn the ball over repeatedly and give up layups and transition baskets. If a team is up 30+ in the second half a coach with a little class and respect for the coaching profession will call a press off and drop back into a quarter court man to man or zone defense to slow the tempo of the game down and reduce the opposing teams turnovers. However, I dont believe in telling your subs to stop shooting and playing hard on offense.

I agree. Absolutely no need to press when blowing another team out. Reward the players who don't get to play in close games show some respect to the other team. You never know how long it will be until the roles are reversed.

[newlex/sheridan]

The team out of texas that won the national title last year played 12 kids every game and pressed buzzer to buzzer, they won countless 80 point games. Their coach said he was not changing how his team played for anyone and if they didn't like it get better. I think that is a little extreme. I remember coach aronhalt at Zanesville having a quote in the paper a few seasons ago when his team was beating ppl by 50 a night, he said it was his job to prepare his team for the postseason and he wasn't going to play more then 7 kids a night because that was his rotation, it is a touchy subject for sure.

[jimmy chipwood]

Coaches who really think they are getting anything out of pressing/trapping an inferior team when there up 30+ late in a game are sadly mistaken. That team that is pressing in not learning anything except possibly bad habits. In my post above I didnt say anthing about changing the intensity of your defense - I merely said change out of trapping back into a quarter court man to man or zone. The kids are still going to play solid, fundamental, high intensity defense just not full court trapping.

[ovc fan]

I think it depends on how much the winning coach dislike the opposing coach ;)

[Chief Lefty]

If we aren't taking people to the shed. Then lets make it that all player on bench get equal playing time. Lets also STOP playing to win and play for fun. Its not the winning teams fault they are far more superior than the other.

[Flashing Cursor]

IMO :

1.) You never change your style of play (Offense or Defense) because of the score or because subs are in the game. You should always play how/what you practice.
2.) There is nothing wrong with beating a team by 30,40,50. I do not understand the rational that says there is.
3.) It is the losing coaches responsibility to "throw in the towel"... Send 5 subs to the table and I guarantee the team with the lead will do the same... (unless you pounded them last year, lol).

that takes me right into .....
4.) If you can dish in out.... don't complain when you receive it...

[teresa]

IMO,I think the team that is getting beat by whateveer score should be the one to sub their starters first indicating that they give and concede victory to you by pulling his players and then and only then do you do the same

[Heavy D]

Coaches who really think they are getting anything out of pressing/trapping an inferior team when there up 30+ late in a game are sadly mistaken. That team that is pressing in not learning anything except possibly bad habits. In my post above I didnt say anthing about changing the intensity of your defense - I merely said change out of trapping back into a quarter court man to man or zone. The kids are still going to play solid, fundamental, high intensity defense just not full court trapping.

Great post, and I could not agree more especially with the highlighted part of your post. Those who disagree would probably be the first ones to cry when a football team is up by 40 yet is still passing and scoring in the third and fourth quarters. I have seen fans from a local school do just that. When their girls basketball team is trapping and getting steals when they are up by 50 it is just playing hard. But when their football team is getting spanked by 50 they cry because the other team threw a pass in the 4th quarter.

[ManitouDan]

surprized to see so many people think running up the score is acceptable because your team is talented, ot "thats just the way we play" Like chipwood said , if you are hammering your opponent with pressure their is ZERO to be gained , it only enables a false sense that if I can play this way against an inferior opponent I can get away with it against any opponent. almost seems like sportsmanship is dead, or at least dying. MD

[sparky]

another thing that should be taken into consideration is that the team getting drilled can get frustrated and and start running opposing players into the wall on bust out lay ups and undercutting on rebounds.
on the other hand i have witnessed teams with big leads going into cruise control and letting a big lead get away. i saw a team go into the fourth quarter with a 20 point lead, emptied the bench and the other team got it into single digits. the starters went back in and were terrible because they had already called it a night. the trailing team either tied it up and or got within two. the leading team ended winning by two. another time in a jv game i saw a team go up 20-1 at the end of the first quarter, every kid played in the first half and they ended up losing. both of these games were before the 3 point shot. now with the 3 point shot it is much easier to cut into a lead.