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Fouls Called On BIG MEN
Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:01 pm
by VisionQuest
Is there a Bias against Big Bodied Players when fouls are called? Case in point in last nights Wellston/Athens game. Athens big Center Isiah Butcher was called for a few fouls in the game where he was standing in the paint with outstretched arms and had is ground staked out and the opposing player drove into the paint and ran into his body and fell as if hitting a Brickhouse. Butcher was playing defense the way it is supposed to be IMO but was called for the Fouls. I think this happens a lot with Big Men and the Refs feel sorry for the smaller players. What are others Thoughts on this??
Re: Fouls Called On BIG MEN
Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:14 pm
by Poo Bear
I would say yes. Either it's this area or this generation but as soon as contact is made players go flying like they were shot from
a cannon. Used to be toughness was emphasized and admired . Now it seemed every shot some is crying foul or the least little bit of contact is "gonna get someone hurt"
Re: Fouls Called On BIG MEN
Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:20 pm
by Smeltzy
I definitely agree. I've complained about this esp the last three years. At FU the big man Woodside has people flop on him all the time but he can't get a foul when people are all over him. It's definitely used against him and other teams know it. It's rediculous!!
Re: Fouls Called On BIG MEN
Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:32 pm
by Ironman92
VisionQuest wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:01 pm
Is there a Bias against Big Bodied Players when fouls are called? Case in point in last nights Wellston/Athens game. Athens big Center Isiah Butcher was called for a few fouls in the game where he was standing in the paint with outstretched arms and had is ground staked out and the opposing player drove into the paint and ran into his body and fell as if hitting a Brickhouse. Butcher was playing defense the way it is supposed to be IMO but was called for the Fouls. I think this happens a lot with Big Men and the Refs feel sorry for the smaller players. What are others Thoughts on this??
A lot of times yes. I’ve watched our freshman Davis who is 6’4 and guarding the post....he had perfect position with lower portion, torso and arms up...300 lb post player dribbles going across lane and shot goes up by 300 lb and obviously very stout post player and if there was any contact whatsoever it wasn’t affecting anything and wouldn’t have knocked over a toddler.....then same game out 5’4 PG gets displaced completely off his feet and nothing.
I can live with either (though I disagree with both)...just be consistent
Re: Fouls Called On BIG MEN
Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:14 pm
by Raider6309
Yeah Butcher gets screwed by the refs. A flop should be a foul.
Re: Fouls Called On BIG MEN
Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:34 pm
by Truth&fiction
Raider6309 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:14 pm
Yeah Butcher gets screwed by the refs. A flop should be a foul.
I would like to hear from some officials on this . It's a judgement call and I'm not sure they penalize a big body but I could be wrong . I' ve seen the little guy go in there and get hammered so does some officials say hey he should have known better. If you are on the road do not expect judgement calls to go your way very often . A block or charge is a tough call sometimes because of angles and shifting of the body and is a judgement call a lot . IMO
Re: Fouls Called On BIG MEN
Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:40 pm
by Ironman92
Honestly I think refs have been very good this year on charge and block calls
Re: Fouls Called On BIG MEN
Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:53 pm
by Super trooper
This is my 5th year as a licensed official so you can take this for what it’s worth. If big guys stay straight up we try to do our best to make sure we don’t call the foul. But if something looks like a foul we can get fooled every once in a while too. But i feel like most of the games i have done, we have done a good job of not calling fouls when they are straight up. One thing I personally have tried to do this year is to protect the big guys and not let them get pounded on.
Re: Fouls Called On BIG MEN
Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:20 am
by Bud07
I don't think Woodside gets bad could called on him but he should shoot 15 free throws a game . He always has 2 guys hanging on his arm and rarely gets the call.
Re: Fouls Called On BIG MEN
Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:17 am
by 4thgoal
From what I have seen, most of the fouls on the bigger guys happen when they lower their arms as contact is approaching. If their arms are truly straight up, typically no call, but when the arms come forward during contact they get called. One of the problems I do see is referees "anticipating" the charge/block/contact and the whistle comes in before (and in some cases regardless) of the contact.
Re: Fouls Called On BIG MEN
Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:26 am
by GalliaGrad78
I think that a lot of the time the bigs get hammered with no fouls called.
Re: Fouls Called On BIG MEN
Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:47 am
by Ironman92
4thgoal wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:17 am
From what I have seen, most of the fouls on the bigger guys happen when they lower their arms as contact is approaching. If their arms are truly straight up, typically no call, but when the arms come forward during contact they get called. One of the problems I do see is referees "anticipating" the charge/block/contact and the whistle comes in before (and in some cases regardless) of the contact.
The anticipation of the contact underneath or when a player is driving bothers me more than anything....but also when an offensive player gets loose and going to the rim players are undisciplined and often foul even though the basket is going to happen and also players will bail out the offensive player that made a great move to get there but doesn’t have the finishing skills to complete the shot with players down near basket. These things definitely not helping the refs any.
Re: Fouls Called On BIG MEN
Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:08 am
by therealNY
I agree with the arms/hands, gotta be straight up. In fairness, its most kids downfall. Its like blocking shots, refs will call a foul most times if you are coming down on the ball as you block. Fair or not, they do.
IMO, I personally think the refs in our area are lacking this year.
Re: Fouls Called On BIG MEN
Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:14 pm
by clevelandbrowns#1
Bias? NO
Probably called different from crew to crew. I don't know how many call it but we try to see verticality, positioning and did he bring his arms down allowing contact with the offensive player. If he is stationed there and is run into by the opponent then it is either a foul on the offensive player or a play on.(There can and will be contact in basketball that isn't considered a foul.) Anticipation whistle shouldn't happen but occasionally does, happens more with inexperienced officials then veteran officials. (I hope)
When the big man is on offense, we don't allow (hanging on his arms). I don't know of any crew that would allow that to happen. We also don't penalize him for rebounding over a smaller opponent without displacement (moving the opponent). If the big gets (hammered) its a foul. If the little gets (hammered) its a foul.
Re: Fouls Called On BIG MEN
Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:24 pm
by noreply66
Refs call what they think they see.
Re: Fouls Called On BIG MEN
Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:25 pm
by Truth&fiction
clevelandbrowns#1 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:14 pm
Bias? NO
Probably called different from crew to crew. I don't know how many call it but we try to see verticality, positioning and did he bring his arms down allowing contact with the offensive player. If he is stationed there and is run into by the opponent then it is either a foul on the offensive player or a play on.(There can and will be contact in basketball that isn't considered a foul.) Anticipation whistle shouldn't happen but occasionally does, happens more with inexperienced officials then veteran officials. (I hope)
When the big man is on offense, we don't allow (hanging on his arms). I don't know of any crew that would allow that to happen. We also don't penalize him for rebounding over a smaller opponent without displacement (moving the opponent). If the big gets (hammered) its a foul. If the little gets (hammered) its a foul.
That is what I have seen to be the norm . Thanks for your response .
Re: Fouls Called On BIG MEN
Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:26 pm
by Truth&fiction
noreply66 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:24 pm
Refs call what they
think they see.
Now that's good . I would not want them to call something they did not see.
Re: Fouls Called On BIG MEN
Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:27 pm
by VisionQuest
Thanks for the responses by the Refs. It's good to see their perspective.
Re: Fouls Called On BIG MEN
Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:33 pm
by noreply66
Truth&fiction wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:26 pm
noreply66 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:24 pm
Refs call what they
think they see.
Now that's good . I would not want them to call something they did not see.
Watching sports and with TV showing replays, showing the call, it comes out what they thought they had seen a lot. Not to be nasty here but refs do call what they do not see at times. Because the eye is quicker than the brain. Or is that the other way around.
Re: Fouls Called On BIG MEN
Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:56 pm
by Truth&fiction
noreply66 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:33 pm
Truth&fiction wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:26 pm
noreply66 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:24 pm
Refs call what they
think they see.
Now that's good . I would not want them to call something they did not see.
Watching sports and with TV showing replays, showing the call, it comes out what they thought they had seen a lot. Not to be nasty here but refs do call what they do not see at times. Because the eye is quicker than the brain. Or is that the other way around.
Is that like saying what came first the chicken or the egg ? Lol