Letter to all- great read, and so true!!

TheFlyingDutchman
JV Team
Posts: 331
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 7:29 pm

Re: Letter to all- great read, and so true!!

Post by TheFlyingDutchman »

My conversation a few years ago with long time referee Ivan Hanshaw.
Me: Ivan, I like you a lot more since I quit coaching
Ivan: Coach, I like you a lot more since you quit coaching
We both had a great laugh
Ivan passed last year and was a solid official


peake71
All Conference
Posts: 896
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:12 pm

Re: Letter to all- great read, and so true!!

Post by peake71 »

Ivan was one I liked. Saw him toss several people.


Pat
Varsity
Posts: 587
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:34 pm

Re: Letter to all- great read, and so true!!

Post by Pat »

Crab's Brother wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:47 am
Pat wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:46 am There really is no need for a letter like this. The only thing needed to get at least half the fans who complain about officials to stop complaining so much is for all officials to call the game equally. Stop favoring one team, player or coach over the other. Treat everyone the same. If the best player on the team commits his/her 5th foul call it on him/her instead of looking and searching for another player in the are to call it on so you can keep the "good" player in the game. Stop cowering down to certain coaches because of their reputation, or their success or whatever. And if you have an opinion on who you want to win, don't do that game. Last but not least, stop going into games thinking, some even verbalize it, "man this is going to be a BS game and the one team will certainly beat the pants off of the other team." All of the above cause many officials to favor one team, player or coach over another. And none of that has to do with the ability or lack of the official. It's the mindset and anyone can change and/or improve in that area with little to no effort. So, if you want more fan support start with this and I think you will be surprised how well it works. Preach this to all the officials instead of preaching to the fans.
How long you been calling games, Pat?
I put 20 years in. How about you Crab?


Pat
Varsity
Posts: 587
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:34 pm

Re: Letter to all- great read, and so true!!

Post by Pat »

trojandave wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:27 pm Officiating is not an easy job, and I have found that out by doing some myself. The most common thing I hear during a game is......"call them both ways". Officiating is not necessarily about calling them "both ways", because there are 2 teams playing who may have completely different playing styles, therefore the calls most generally will not even out in free throw shots, the number of fouls, or the type of fouls called.

Fans have a right to voice their opinion but should absolutely not make their complaints personal or insulting. Officials know that fans will question calls from time to time and most accept some degree of that as long as it's civil.
"Call them both ways" to me simply means if you are going to call a certain type of foul or infraction on one team then call the same type of foul on the other team. This fits in with my post above. Don't favor one team, coach, or player over another and many of the complaints will go away. If not, the complaints will multiply and eventually the personal and insulting comments will come in to play.


alabama mike
SE
Posts: 2077
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 2:33 pm

Re: Letter to all- great read, and so true!!

Post by alabama mike »

Well said friend. Keep working hard like you have for so many years.


mrwonderful
Varsity
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Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:06 am

Re: Letter to all- great read, and so true!!

Post by mrwonderful »

Someone mentioned a women getting throwed out..Their the worse screamers!!! Not many of them but when you get one they go postal..Obnoxious as hell!!!!! Also i know one official who when He's a fan is a loudmouth screaming at officials like a dang crybaby!!!When he's officiating he'll throw anyone out who looks cross eyed at him.....The Official with 2 faces!!!!!!!!


mrwonderful
Varsity
Posts: 491
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:06 am

Re: Letter to all- great read, and so true!!

Post by mrwonderful »

Side note: Never, I repeat, never sit by an official at a Basketball game....Theyll' drive U Bat Sh$t crazy!!!!!!! They don't watch the game..They watch the officials! For 4 quarters they tell you what the officials on floor are doing wrong!!!!!!


Gray Cat
Varsity
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Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2021 2:07 pm

Re: Letter to all- great read, and so true!!

Post by Gray Cat »

mrwonderful wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 10:34 am Someone mentioned a women getting throwed out..Their the worse screamers!!! Not many of them but when you get one they go postal..Obnoxious as hell!!!!! Also i know one official who when He's a fan is a loudmouth screaming at officials like a dang crybaby!!!When he's officiating he'll throw anyone out who looks cross eyed at him.....The Official with 2 faces!!!!!!!!
I know some refs go into games looking for and hoping to find someone to throw out. One crew I know of gives each other points for ejections and the loser has to buy the beer on the way home. And then we get a "letter" like the OP asking for more respect and trying to "educate" the fans. How about work on the bad refs first. Clean up your own and go from there. :o


Basketball:30
Riding the Bench
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:19 am

Re: Letter to all- great read, and so true!!

Post by Basketball:30 »

Thank you to the men and women who put on the stripes, and spend countless hours away from your home/families to give the kids the ability to play basketball -- all the while dealing with severe verbal and sometimes physical abuse.

I would love to see anybody on here talking down about officials try to officiate a JH girls game and not pee their pants. Even for the bad officials, at least they have the testicular fortitude to be able to go out there and do something 99% of the general population is too scared to do.
The state of abuse from players, coaches, and fans I believe is at an all-time low. But as pfloyd stated, the good teams/good coaches treat officials with the respect they deserve.


Crab's Brother
SEO
Posts: 2949
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 3:07 pm

Re: Letter to all- great read, and so true!!

Post by Crab's Brother »

pfloyd wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:57 pm Maybe I make it a habit of going to see "good games" - between quality teams to begin with but watching quality teams means we usually have equally "quality officiating" crews to work those games as well ... crabs brother, clevelandbrowns#1 you guys do it right! I SEE the things that are being brought up - the consistency in the calls for 32 minutes etc. one of the positives about keeping napkin stats on every game I attend - I don't say a word LOL ... I HEAR a WHOLE LOT of "STUFF" and laugh it off ... this years' line of lines directed toward an officiating crew was when a lady was ejected for harassing a crew, then as she was leaving she yelled out - "What you are doing is organized child abuse!!!" - THAT was a first time I had heard THAT one used LOL - it made my napkin stat sheet ... as I have posted many times - the crews in SEO are some of the best ... when I leave the game I don't feel the outcome was controlled/dictated by those in stripes - well done !!!
What a scene that was!

She was very frustrated by the way her sons' team was being manhandled and she finally broke. She wasn't vulgar but she was encouraging her team to just run through the other team and it was to the point where she was making a spectacle of the game.


Crab's Brother
SEO
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Re: Letter to all- great read, and so true!!

Post by Crab's Brother »

Pat wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 9:30 am
Crab's Brother wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:47 am
Pat wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:46 am There really is no need for a letter like this. The only thing needed to get at least half the fans who complain about officials to stop complaining so much is for all officials to call the game equally. Stop favoring one team, player or coach over the other. Treat everyone the same. If the best player on the team commits his/her 5th foul call it on him/her instead of looking and searching for another player in the are to call it on so you can keep the "good" player in the game. Stop cowering down to certain coaches because of their reputation, or their success or whatever. And if you have an opinion on who you want to win, don't do that game. Last but not least, stop going into games thinking, some even verbalize it, "man this is going to be a BS game and the one team will certainly beat the pants off of the other team." All of the above cause many officials to favor one team, player or coach over another. And none of that has to do with the ability or lack of the official. It's the mindset and anyone can change and/or improve in that area with little to no effort. So, if you want more fan support start with this and I think you will be surprised how well it works. Preach this to all the officials instead of preaching to the fans.
How long you been calling games, Pat?
I put 20 years in. How about you Crab?
I am on year 4.

To blame the officials for fans behavior sure says a lot. We have a shortage. Maybe you should come back. You seem to have the answers.


Pat
Varsity
Posts: 587
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:34 pm

Re: Letter to all- great read, and so true!!

Post by Pat »

Crab's Brother wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:16 am
Pat wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 9:30 am
Crab's Brother wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:47 am

How long you been calling games, Pat?
I put 20 years in. How about you Crab?
I am on year 4.

To blame the officials for fans behavior sure says a lot. We have a shortage. Maybe you should come back. You seem to have the answers.
That's great and welcome to the ranks. I will tell you if you have not already you are sure to run across some officials who do the very things I mentioned. The worst thing to do I've found when there is an issue is to refuse to take a look in the mirror and ask, what can I do to make this better. Many people, and officials are not immune, refuse to do that. It's always someone else's fault. In this case, let's fix the fans and not worry about doing a better job ourselves. My point was and is, the things I mentioned go on all the time in basketball games. If the officials would fix those issues fan behavior would improve. Will it fix it all? No. There'll always be idiots out there. My advice to you is, don't become the official who refuses to call the 5th foul, or any fouls, on the best player, or the one who thinks, "this is a great coach so I have to treat him better than the other coach," etc... Just call the game fairly and equally to the best of your ability and ignore as much of the nonsense as you can and you'll enjoy officiating much more than otherwise. Do I have all the answers, no. Did I make all the "right" calls? No. But I can safely say I never bought into the mindset I mentioned in my original post and I am proud that I didn't. Many can't say that. Enjoy your career, I wish the best for you.


Lucky Charms
Freshman Team
Posts: 120
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:13 pm

Re: Letter to all- great read, and so true!!

Post by Lucky Charms »

mrwonderful wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 10:34 am Someone mentioned a women getting throwed out..Their the worse screamers!!! Not many of them but when you get one they go postal..Obnoxious as hell!!!!! Also i know one official who when He's a fan is a loudmouth screaming at officials like a dang crybaby!!!When he's officiating he'll throw anyone out who looks cross eyed at him.....The Official with 2 faces!!!!!!!!
That sounds like John Sheets


DUNK1
Freshman Team
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:54 pm

Re: Letter to all- great read, and so true!!

Post by DUNK1 »

Pat wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 9:34 am
trojandave wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:27 pm Officiating is not an easy job, and I have found that out by doing some myself. The most common thing I hear during a game is......"call them both ways". Officiating is not necessarily about calling them "both ways", because there are 2 teams playing who may have completely different playing styles, therefore the calls most generally will not even out in free throw shots, the number of fouls, or the type of fouls called.

Fans have a right to voice their opinion but should absolutely not make their complaints personal or insulting. Officials know that fans will question calls from time to time and most accept some degree of that as long as it's civil.
"Call them both ways" to me simply means if you are going to call a certain type of foul or infraction on one team then call the same type of foul on the other team. This fits in with my post above. Don't favor one team, coach, or player over another and many of the complaints will go away. If not, the complaints will multiply and eventually the personal and insulting comments will come in to play.
You obviously never worked a game my boy was coaching. You wouldn’t last till halftime if you were faced with his patented stomp and stare


Pat
Varsity
Posts: 587
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:34 pm

Re: Letter to all- great read, and so true!!

Post by Pat »

DUNK1 wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:13 pm
Pat wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 9:34 am
trojandave wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:27 pm Officiating is not an easy job, and I have found that out by doing some myself. The most common thing I hear during a game is......"call them both ways". Officiating is not necessarily about calling them "both ways", because there are 2 teams playing who may have completely different playing styles, therefore the calls most generally will not even out in free throw shots, the number of fouls, or the type of fouls called.

Fans have a right to voice their opinion but should absolutely not make their complaints personal or insulting. Officials know that fans will question calls from time to time and most accept some degree of that as long as it's civil.
"Call them both ways" to me simply means if you are going to call a certain type of foul or infraction on one team then call the same type of foul on the other team. This fits in with my post above. Don't favor one team, coach, or player over another and many of the complaints will go away. If not, the complaints will multiply and eventually the personal and insulting comments will come in to play.
You obviously never worked a game my boy was coaching. You wouldn’t last till halftime if you were faced with his patented stomp and stare
If you are talking about who I think you are, I was never "chosen" to do one of his games at home. But got him on the road a few times and he wasn't impressed LOL. He likes to get officials like I mentioned in my original post. In fact, most of the ones who I know for sure officiate that way seem to be his favorites. Imagine that. :mrgreen:


Farmer Yoder
Freshman Team
Posts: 223
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:13 pm

Re: Letter to all- great read, and so true!!

Post by Farmer Yoder »

Pat wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:23 pm
DUNK1 wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:13 pm
Pat wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 9:34 am

"Call them both ways" to me simply means if you are going to call a certain type of foul or infraction on one team then call the same type of foul on the other team. This fits in with my post above. Don't favor one team, coach, or player over another and many of the complaints will go away. If not, the complaints will multiply and eventually the personal and insulting comments will come in to play.
You obviously never worked a game my boy was coaching. You wouldn’t last till halftime if you were faced with his patented stomp and stare
If you are talking about who I think you are, I was never "chosen" to do one of his games at home. But got him on the road a few times and he wasn't impressed LOL. He likes to get officials like I mentioned in my original post. In fact, most of the ones who I know for sure officiate that way seem to be his favorites. Imagine that. :mrgreen:
This is true. I have worked for your boy many times. The pay has always been fantastic and the results speak for themselves. I have never reffed a game that he lost. You want quality refs you gotta pay the price.


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