TVC VS SOC ... ?

[ManitouDan]

Just got my feet wet in learning how Ohio operates their post season tourney ( SCREWED UP !) I'm a lifelong Ky'ian so the terminology and brackets makes things very different. What I found out is that if any SOC team wants to advance to the Sweet 16 it goes thru Waterford and Reedsville Eastern. So with the damage inflicted on the SOC last night I ask hoops fans in the SOC area what does the SOC need to do to catch up to the front runners from the TVC ?

Waterford played a bunch of soph's and juniors. Not like they lose a bunch. What was the clear biggest difference in the 2 games ? IMO (laugh now) it was clearly ballhandling and ... ballhandling. Both Eastern and waterford want to speed you up , press you and gets easy buckets off TO's. again IMO the SOC schools look to play slower, set back in a zone ( or man with no pressure) and hope the other team doesn't shot well. Obviously from last night if an SOC team is going to advance you better learn to play FAST .

Like someone else said, Clay laid an egg , just played poorly , but even if they play better they don't come too close in that game. Same with ND , Waterford allowed ND to play kinda slow in the 1st quarter --ends in a 12-12 tie after one. 2nd quarter heat gets turned up , ND gets tired . Mistake after mistake starts. Anyone else see something different ? How does the SOC up their game enough to compete ? MD

[thunderdome]

MD,

It has nothing to do with genetics in the eastern (TVC) counties. Oak Hill (SOC II) has had a great program for years. South Webster (SOC II, D IV) had a great run the last four years (until this year). For small schools (D IV and D III), the regional and state qualifiers generally fall into two camps - traditional or "rogue" programs. Traditional programs like Berlin Hiland and Oak Hill win because they've had a long history of great basketball. Good coaching, AAU, and a few defections from adjacent districts feeds the system. Rogue programs like Africentric and Harvest Prep offer great coaching and recruit (excuse me, they attract) from a large urban area like Columbus, Cincinnati, or Cleveland. Euclid Regina followed the same strategy for years in the Cleveland area. Regina was disqualified from last year's tournament and the school went out-of-business. Most of the girls from their program along with an assistant coach (Their head coach is still under investigation, I think) moved to a small school in North Ridgeville (Lake Ridge Academy) that will likely play Harvest Prep in the state tournament if they don't get disqualified. South Webster had a great run (made sweet 16 year before last) in D IV until this year mainly because of one of the finest players/athletes that I've seen in southern Ohio - Kayla Cook. She could make any team a Sweet 16 just by stepping on the court.

As for SOC 1, I think it's a losing battle. Small schools, very few girls interested in bball, and very few involved in AAU provides a poor foundation for success. They may play very competitive games between each other, but they have a difficult time competing with others. I think S Webster has the best situation because they are D IV but play SOC II (D III) schools. When they get to the tournament, they at least have had the experience of playing more talented teams throughout the season. I suppose SOC I can be happy that softball season is just around the corner.

[FANOSPORTS]

MD,

It has nothing to do with genetics in the eastern (TVC) counties. Oak Hill (SOC II) has had a great program for years. South Webster (SOC II, D IV) had a great run the last four years (until this year). For small schools (D IV and D III), the regional and state qualifiers generally fall into two camps - traditional or "rogue" programs. Traditional programs like Berlin Hiland and Oak Hill win because they've had a long history of great basketball. Good coaching, AAU, and a few defections from adjacent districts feeds the system. Rogue programs like Africentric and Harvest Prep offer great coaching and recruit (excuse me, they attract) from a large urban area like Columbus, Cincinnati, or Cleveland. Euclid Regina followed the same strategy for years in the Cleveland area. Regina was disqualified from last year's tournament and the school went out-of-business. Most of the girls from their program along with an assistant coach (Their head coach is still under investigation, I think) moved to a small school in North Ridgeville (Lake Ridge Academy) that will likely play Harvest Prep in the state tournament if they don't get disqualified. South Webster had a great run (made sweet 16 year before last) in D IV until this year mainly because of one of the finest players/athletes that I've seen in southern Ohio - Kayla Cook. She could make any team a Sweet 16 just by stepping on the court.

As for SOC 1, I think it's a losing battle. Small schools, very few girls interested in bball, and very few involved in AAU provides a poor foundation for success. They may play very competitive games between each other, but they have a difficult time competing with others. I think S Webster has the best situation because they are D IV but play SOC II (D III) schools. When they get to the tournament, they at least have had the experience of playing more talented teams throughout the season. I suppose SOC I can be happy that softball season is just around the corner.

I started a topic on this very subject earlier today on this forum, they did get disqualified thunderdome.

[ssbball]

How many girls on Clay & ND play postseason bball? AAU, GBA etc? How many play softball? Run track? IMO that is the difference. These teams have a core group every year that for the most part just play bball. Plus AAU. They focus on bball. IMO thats the difference.

[thunderdome]

Fan,

I missed your post. I'm pleased that they pulled Lake Ridge before they got too deep in the tournament.

[FANOSPORTS]

Fan,

I missed your post. I'm pleased that they pulled Lake Ridge before they got too deep in the tournament.

Yeah, me too. I wish they would do it more

[ManitouDan]

thanks for some opinions. I agree about the dedication to just hoops. problem with that at a school like ND is that 80 % of the hoops team play volleyball, and softball. You start having girls tell softball "no" because of aau you flat out can't field a softball team. my kid had some success as a freshman this year. But she is a total greenhorn at competing with the likes of a waterford or eastern. So i checked into AAU ball to maybe improve her skills . It runs concurrent with softball season. no way we play softball 5 days a week with practices and try to squeeze in aau ball on the weekends. (my kid is more gifted at fastpich) so I guess pick your poison. Clay is dang good at softball also , maybe we can have a soc-tvc rematch in softball ?

[KingJames]

The good thing about eastern and Waterford is they both have excellent volleyball, basketball, softball, and track teams

[ManitouDan]

do the same girls play AAU and softball ? I honestly don't see how it can work --you play on the weekends in aau , I assume you have to practice at least once a week. How can you also be available for softball. ? of course waterford and eastern propably have double the amount of girls than ND .

[KingJames]

The girls from eastern that play aau run track

[lambee_factor]

Our WV Thunder travel basketball club encourages players to play more than one sport. We attempt for the girls to not miss any of their school games. the exception would be like the Deep South where we contact the school coach and we try to work with all the schools who have girls in our program. We have more games in July than any other month and school sports are over by then. Most of the school coaches in Ohio have also used their 10 day period in June. As a club we have been blessed to have some great players from Eastern, Oak Hill, Vinton County & South Webster and the list goes on. Now if a girl plays travel ball in say soccer, volleyball, softball we do expect them to give us half of thier time as far as games and practice with those sports. We would have lost a lot of outstanding athletes to other sports if we had a hard and fast no exceptions rule on practice and games.

[thunderdome]

I've had the opportunity to follow my daughter through 4 years of basketball. She did not play AAU. But she had fun and learned a lot about competition, dedication, and leadership. Sometimes I think we parents (especially dads) try to live too much through our children. Many girls (not all, mind you) are playing AAU because their fathers want them to. In many cases, it puts too much pressure on the kid and the family. If you are thinking about college scholarships, think again. I would guess that over 95% of the high school basketball players receive trivial or no scholarships for all their hard work ... and that includes some the best players (you'll have to take my word that I know what I'm talking about). As far as college goes, most would be much better off reading a few books, doing a science fair project, and working on their math assignments rather than 10 - 15 hours of practice each week plus AAU in the offseason.

No matter how much a kid or a team accomplishes, they are almost all destined to run into the Oak Hills, Waterfords, etc., at some point. And remember, most of those really good teams don't win state championships, so they have their own Waterloos. I will always take some solace in the fact that my children have all learned from their basketball experiences and, especially, have learned the proper balance between athletics and more important endeavors. I wish everyone's son and daughter the same.

[ManitouDan]

not that your advice is incorrect or wrong but why post it here on a thread about how to compete vs the TVC ? Since i'm the OP was it directed towards me ? I'm not insulted because your advice is really sound.

No shame in losing to them but I'll own up to not enjoying getting throttled by a same size (or at least similiar) school.

Some how the Waterford's and Oak hill's are producing BOTH outstanding students and outstanding hoops players. My question was how to get SOC teams to be able to compete, not overthrow them . Should we (SOC) not attempt to get better ? or just accept the pounding a trip the convo brings ? I ask for school and conference pride. Not any sort of "look at my kid" syndrome .

[ManitouDan]

FWIW my kid was at church this am, it's her 2nd year volunteering to coach IBL on sat am's MD

[KingJames]

The kids from eastern that play aau do it Bc they love to play basketball

[ssbball]

Wow. That's a beautiful story. I respect your view, but that is your view. The day after our season ended my daughter wanted to know when AAU season starts. She is excited for it to start and has been the past 4 years. She can't read yet as a junior, but man she loves AAU. Just kidding on the reading part. She plays 2 sports and is a 3 year letterman in both but neither effect AAU. All kids are different and most parents are the same. Just enjoy them while they are home it goes to fast.

[run-n-gun]

Well this year Waterford played Notre Dame when they should have played Eastern Beaver instead. But EB played a horrible game and ND had a good one. But to the point, I believe that EB would have played Waterford better because they are capable of playing a fast paced game. Am i saying EB would have won? I doubt it. But EB would have played a more competitive game for Waterford. And most of EB's players play club volleyball, so basketball is not their main focus. And it comes to show on the v-ball court. ;)

[KingJames]

Who cares