Soccer Officials

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rxburgfan
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Soccer Officials

Post by rxburgfan »

Gotta find a way to get some young people working as officials. Wonder how the most recent class went? I’d say we are couple injuries away from having single officials for some games.



Mr. Official
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Re: Soccer Officials

Post by Mr. Official »

I know Armstrong pushes out to high school coaches to try and get at least their seniors to get a license. I'm not sure how many he had in class this year... only 3-4 maybe. Learn the other side of the ball, Help control a team, gain a tactical advantage, make some extra cash on a plethora of Junior high contests, finally have some authority over know-it-all adults... you know, the list goes on and on.

Tammy Gillogly usually holds a class in Athens but I don't think that happened this year and I don't think there was one offered around Chillicothe either. Not sure if John Dick still does those or not, I know he's on his way out of the soccer world (1-2) season left anyway.

Add to that mix an increase in middle school contests that assignors need to assign for their cut and it's a headache to say the least.

I've worked with several officials and a few are past their time to go. It hurts physically to watch them "run" and the reaction just isn't there through no fault of their own. Most don't want the game taken away from them. Some feel obligated to stick around because not enough new officials are coming up and some literally would rather die on the field and be carried off than walk away.

I'd love to relay ideas and as an association we've bounced around how to target people but I know at least for me an most class 1 guys a full season is around 40 games. I'd gladly take a couple nights off a week if it meant better soccer for the area and fresher legs for all involved. The burnout starts to hit before the excitement of the tournament can take hold.



OSH
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Re: Soccer Officials

Post by OSH »

I have been involved in soccer for 30+ years. This has always been an issue. In all my history of being involved "in the game," I can only think of 2 former players, classmates, teammates, etc. that got into refereeing. One of them is no longer refereeing (around 30 years old now).

Biggest thing I can say is: why don't officials reach out to coaches more? Publicize refereeing courses TO the club, high school, or college coaches. Officials HAVE to be more proactive in recruiting. Coaches cannot pass on anything if they don't know how to. At the same time, coaches MUST do their job of encouraging players to get into officiating.

Lastly, as everyone knows, officials need to quit being so political and sensitive. Get young officials in important matches. Mentor and usher them along. The average age of an OHSAA soccer official is 55/56. That is horrific. That simply means those in charge aren't doing their job to get the next generation into the system.



4thgoal
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Re: Soccer Officials

Post by 4thgoal »

Good post OSH. Same as in business, you should always be training someone to be your replacement....



goUK
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Re: Soccer Officials

Post by goUK »

No one wants to ref any sport for the most part because you constantly get yelled at and threatebed by coaches and parents.



rxburgfan
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Re: Soccer Officials

Post by rxburgfan »

Mr. Official wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:16 am
I know Armstrong pushes out to high school coaches to try and get at least their seniors to get a license. I'm not sure how many he had in class this year... only 3-4 maybe. Learn the other side of the ball, Help control a team, gain a tactical advantage, make some extra cash on a plethora of Junior high contests, finally have some authority over know-it-all adults... you know, the list goes on and on.

Tammy Gillogly usually holds a class in Athens but I don't think that happened this year and I don't think there was one offered around Chillicothe either. Not sure if John Dick still does those or not, I know he's on his way out of the soccer world (1-2) season left anyway.

Add to that mix an increase in middle school contests that assignors need to assign for their cut and it's a headache to say the least.

I've worked with several officials and a few are past their time to go. It hurts physically to watch them "run" and the reaction just isn't there through no fault of their own. Most don't want the game taken away from them. Some feel obligated to stick around because not enough new officials are coming up and some literally would rather die on the field and be carried off than walk away.

I'd love to relay ideas and as an association we've bounced around how to target people but I know at least for me an most class 1 guys a full season is around 40 games. I'd gladly take a couple nights off a week if it meant better soccer for the area and fresher legs for all involved. The burnout starts to hit before the excitement of the tournament can take hold.
SE District needs a concerted effort for new refs. It’s going to become a money thing. I’d say that keep current pay rate and if they receive good ratings by the coach they get a bonus. If they officiate certain number matches they get bonuses.



Mr. Official
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Re: Soccer Officials

Post by Mr. Official »

rxburgfan wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:46 pm
SE District needs a concerted effort for new refs. It’s going to become a money thing. I’d say that keep current pay rate and if they receive good ratings by the coach they get a bonus. If they officiate certain number matches they get bonuses.

I think it's a money thing for any official and the discrepancies between leagues. Speaking only for high school, I've done regular season games in the center for $90. I've also done them for $55. There ought to be a standard for the match being played.

I've also done Junior high games for anywhere between $45-60. In some cases double because I was the only official.

Then take into account JV games... I think the SOC rate differs and was at $45 or something. If I can take a middle school game and make more why not?

SO while the current system does need addressed for clarity between leagues... who would enforce your added bonus? You already have to get 10 games to be eligible for tournaments. You're supposed to be a Class 1 but that doesn't always happen because the numbers are what they are.

I don't know that there is a simple answer but I'd be open to any suggestions.



rxburgfan
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Re: Soccer Officials

Post by rxburgfan »

Mr. Official wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:17 pm
rxburgfan wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:46 pm
SE District needs a concerted effort for new refs. It’s going to become a money thing. I’d say that keep current pay rate and if they receive good ratings by the coach they get a bonus. If they officiate certain number matches they get bonuses.

I think it's a money thing for any official and the discrepancies between leagues. Speaking only for high school, I've done regular season games in the center for $90. I've also done them for $55. There ought to be a standard for the match being played.

I've also done Junior high games for anywhere between $45-60. In some cases double because I was the only official.

Then take into account JV games... I think the SOC rate differs and was at $45 or something. If I can take a middle school game and make more why not?

SO while the current system does need addressed for clarity between leagues... who would enforce your added bonus? You already have to get 10 games to be eligible for tournaments. You're supposed to be a Class 1 but that doesn't always happen because the numbers are what they are.

I don't know that there is a simple answer but I'd be open to any suggestions.
I was thinking after so many matches there would be a bonus paid. Encourage refs to keep a full schedule.

Accountability is also become an issue. Referees are accountable to no one. They can make any calls they want without recourse. Collectively it takes some leadership at the district level. As much video that is being shot today I believe random games should be graded by fellow refs. Physicians sit through M and M conferences so refs should sit through similar process among peers.



alabama mike
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Re: Soccer Officials

Post by alabama mike »

Mr. Official, he had 3 to take the class. It was advertised on FB as well as contacting areas coaches. It really is not a bad gig for a young person in college or just out who would like a little extra money. Seniors in high school can do junior high and pee wee games by taking the class. Not sure what, if any thing is paid for pee wee but they would be paid for junior high games.



Frank Reagan
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Re: Soccer Officials

Post by Frank Reagan »

rxburgfan wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:38 pm

Accountability is also become an issue. Referees are accountable to no one. They can make any calls they want without recourse.
Not necessarily true. They are accountable to the ones that hire them and the ones that grade/rate them. If someone does a poor job, they won't get hired back or assigned, or if there is a lack of officials, they won't get good, quality games. And then as for the ones that rate them, they cannot get tournament games if their ratings are poor. Those two make the referees be accountable to someone.


Doing the right thing is rarely easy.

Mr. Official
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Re: Soccer Officials

Post by Mr. Official »

rxburgfan wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:38 pm
I was thinking after so many matches there would be a bonus paid. Encourage refs to keep a full schedule.

Accountability is also become an issue. Referees are accountable to no one. They can make any calls they want without recourse. Collectively it takes some leadership at the district level. As much video that is being shot today I believe random games should be graded by fellow refs. Physicians sit through M and M conferences so refs should sit through similar process among peers.
I don't disagree. College gets evaluated, professionals get evaluated, USSF gets evaluations especially to go up in rank. The problem again become who will enforce? I can't tell you the last time I saw a district rep at one of our local meetings let alone a game that wasn't for a trophy that night. OHSAA only requirement is the observation to go from each class. There are no training requirements like the other leagues (USSF & College) and no minimum number of games to meet eligibility. I know we've discussed issues as an officials chapter about games but that's the extent and other than investigations by OHSAA their isn't much we can do locally. But we are accountable as independent contractors to those that hold our contracts. Tournament ratings are taken into account there. Low ratings, low games. High ratings further tournament selections.
alabama mike wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:48 am
Mr. Official, he had 3 to take the class. It was advertised on FB as well as contacting areas coaches. It really is not a bad gig for a young person in college or just out who would like a little extra money. Seniors in high school can do junior high and pee wee games by taking the class. Not sure what, if any thing is paid for pee wee but they would be paid for junior high games.
OHSAA doesn't regulate a pay schedule until tournament time.Until then everything is subject to what the leagues are willing to pay and the officials are willing to work for. Those that push for more money are often criticized on the "love of the game" level. I'd love to pick and choose my schedule, I'd have a double header varsity on Tuesdays and Thursdays with an occasional close to home junior high game on the other days. Go watch the youth teams play Saturday. Great week. I'm not pushing regulations just consistency.


And another rant... can we stop playing the girls first every time and give them their shot under the lights?



4thgoal
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Re: Soccer Officials

Post by 4thgoal »

Mr. Official wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:06 am
And another rant... can we stop playing the girls first every time and give them their shot under the lights?
Agree 100%. The young ladies work just as hard as the boys teams and deserve to play under the lights at least half the time.



rxburgfan
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Re: Soccer Officials

Post by rxburgfan »

Frank Reagan wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:04 am
rxburgfan wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:38 pm

Accountability is also become an issue. Referees are accountable to no one. They can make any calls they want without recourse.
Not necessarily true. They are accountable to the ones that hire them and the ones that grade/rate them. If someone does a poor job, they won't get hired back or assigned, or if there is a lack of officials, they won't get good, quality games. And then as for the ones that rate them, they cannot get tournament games if their ratings are poor. Those two make the referees be accountable to someone.
The beauty of the game today is video evidence. You watch call after call and the disparity. In the end video shows the truth.



Mr. Official
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Re: Soccer Officials

Post by Mr. Official »

rxburgfan wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:15 pm
The beauty of the game today is video evidence. You watch call after call and the disparity. In the end video shows the truth.
I'm going to argue against this and not because I want any of my calls being overturned... The beauty of the game is in the spirit of the game. Not video evidence. Angles are everything in soccer. Advantage is everything in soccer. I've had games where players couldn't handle any contact within the rules of the game and wanted every touch foul called. I've also had teams that played within the rules and have been very vocal about letting the touch stuff go. Skill of the players is also a top consideration. In our area, as referenced by the scores of recent games, is very diverse. We have great teams and we have terrible teams. We have teams that can compete with small colleges and those that would be beat by 8-10 from 11 random fans in the stands. Late clips, flailing arms, UGLY SOCCER. Which is the worst to officiate.

Even at the professional levels there have been several instances where the VAR has been wrong. I'm not saying I don't agree with replays, but until you can get a system in place like football has, multiple angles, multiple breakdowns, slow motion, the works... its a waste of time if it can't be implemented correctly.

That being said, OHSAA considers all officiating decisions final. There is too much room for every scenario being challenged and overturned in our current "entitled" state.

But referees should strive to get better. I always self assess after a game. Usually text my partners later after walking out. I've been shown videos of bad calls, and videos of good calls. I've also been shown a good call from a bad angle and vice versa.

Expect missed calls though. If Top shelf referees still make mistakes, you better believe that anything less than that will also screw something up. Hopefully its in the middle of the field and not the attacking third when that happens though. From experience, looking through 10-15 players at a time is hard to do... except from the stands. :lol:



transplant
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Re: Soccer Officials

Post by transplant »

well said...



rxburgfan
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Re: Soccer Officials

Post by rxburgfan »

Mr. Official wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:39 am
rxburgfan wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:15 pm
The beauty of the game today is video evidence. You watch call after call and the disparity. In the end video shows the truth.
I'm going to argue against this and not because I want any of my calls being overturned... The beauty of the game is in the spirit of the game. Not video evidence. Angles are everything in soccer. Advantage is everything in soccer. I've had games where players couldn't handle any contact within the rules of the game and wanted every touch foul called. I've also had teams that played within the rules and have been very vocal about letting the touch stuff go. Skill of the players is also a top consideration. In our area, as referenced by the scores of recent games, is very diverse. We have great teams and we have terrible teams. We have teams that can compete with small colleges and those that would be beat by 8-10 from 11 random fans in the stands. Late clips, flailing arms, UGLY SOCCER. Which is the worst to officiate.

Even at the professional levels there have been several instances where the VAR has been wrong. I'm not saying I don't agree with replays, but until you can get a system in place like football has, multiple angles, multiple breakdowns, slow motion, the works... its a waste of time if it can't be implemented correctly.

That being said, OHSAA considers all officiating decisions final. There is too much room for every scenario being challenged and overturned in our current "entitled" state.

But referees should strive to get better. I always self assess after a game. Usually text my partners later after walking out. I've been shown videos of bad calls, and videos of good calls. I've also been shown a good call from a bad angle and vice versa.

Expect missed calls though. If Top shelf referees still make mistakes, you better believe that anything less than that will also screw something up. Hopefully its in the middle of the field and not the attacking third when that happens though. From experience, looking through 10-15 players at a time is hard to do... except from the stands. :lol:
Love the view from your world. But it doesn’t happen. Prematch conference players and coaches are briefed on 10 yards for free kick. They specify you are on a football field and can see the yards. Tonight ball was in the 18. Ref stepped it off to the 12. He was asked about the missing 4. He just threw up his hand. But video evidence is fun when ref swells up like a turkey on the field to defend his call and it turns out to be dead wrong.



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